Difference Bitween T.Saifuddin & Burhanuddin Maula's Agenda

[master.b00t]

Tahersaifuddin Maula And Mohammad Burahanuddin Maula Me Buniyaadi difference kya tha ? kya ye Tahersaifuddin Maula ke jo main aim the unka hi prakshepan unki hi pratikruti burhanuddin maula me he ? ya Taher Saifuddin maula ke jo values the unko bhul kar apane hissab se ye sab banaya he ? ya to un dono me bunyaadi roop se koi farak nahi tha ? sirf samay badal gaya he? koi main differfence tha dono me ? kya Tahersaifuddin Maula was better than Burha nuddin Maula in their values ? Pls jo jankaar ho, jo jante he wahi log opinion de ,jankaar log aage aaye aur is topic par charcha kare.Thanks

[seeker110]

The difference between TS and BM is few billion dollars.

[S. Insaf]

The difference between functioning of two maulas:
There were thousands of Bohras and ulemas who had seen or had knowledge of functioning of earlier 50 Dais. He had to go slowly. There was no concept of Raza or Baraat. So even during the initial period of Taher Saifuddin Saheb "Raza" was not compulsory. When people started opposing his usurping and repressive policy he started with "Salam Bandh". There was accustom that Bohras used to go to Dai on first of every month for Salam. He started refusing to give hand to his dissidents for Salam. Then little harshar "Jamat-Kharij", not inviting in Jamatkhana was introduced. Jamatkharij Bohras were allowed in masjids, mazars etc. Mukasir of Taher Saifuddin Saheb, Saleh bhai Safiuddin, made a mistake of sending farmans of Jamatkharij in writting. So Taher Saifuddin Saheb was challenged in the courts of law. After 1962 he introduced a new word "Baraat" and since then no farman in writing was issued. (Burhanuddin maula again made the same mistake in Udaipur of issuing a farman of Baraat in writing). Taher Saifuddin maula had kept Amils in check and had not allowed then to over-ride.

In 1965 when Burhanuddin Saheb became Dai the entire class of learned ulemas was abolished. Bohras then had not seen or heard about the functioning of earlier 50 Dais. Burhanuddin Saheb was weak in asserting his decisions as his entire family from mother side had left Taher Saifuddin Saheb so he remained dominated by his brothers and other family members. Even Amils became dominating. So much more violence was seen during Burhanuddin Saheb's time in comparison of Taher Saifuddin Maula.
Now Dawat is purely a commercial venture and no religion is left.

[master.b00t]

S.insaf saheb thanks for your tell us more about it, but my hidden question in this topic is that , Tahersafuddin maula is more better in his Insaaniyat values than Burhanuddin saab ? kya Taher saifuddin maula me aisa kuchh tha ki jis se hame "Maulana Ali" ki yaad aa jaye ? difference bitween their values as a human. ya fir dono me values ek hi tarah. ki thi sirf samay badal gaya he ? is there any Divine thing in Taher saifuddin Maula ?

[guy_sam2005]

insaaf,
what a talent u poccess man..what a talent...have u ever tried writing a script for bollywood.or even better hollywood...
u always have all spices ur stories...
as if u were there to see the before 50 dai's function.....if u were there u would have had problems with them too..thats for sure....

[seeker110]

GuySam shouldnt you be busy looking for the answers to questions you were asked earlier.

[merchant786]

Why did u ask this seeker....

Now you will not be able to see this Guy for another week or so.....He will have to hide somewhere...

[S. Insaf]

S.insaf saheb thanks for your tell us more about it, but my hidden question in this topic is that , Tahersafuddin maula is more better in his Insaaniyat values than Burhanuddin saab ? kya Taher saifuddin maula me aisa kuchh tha ki jis se hame "Maulana Ali" ki yaad aa jaye ? difference bitween their values as a human. ya fir dono me values ek hi tarah. ki thi sirf samay badal gaya he ? is there any Divine thing in Taher saifuddin Maula ?

Though Taher Saifuddin Maula claimed to be "Shamshul Duatul Mustaqeem" (Shining like Sun among Dais) and also claimed "Religious and Spiritual head" with his consolidated position of a monarch by usurping the wealth and valuable properties of the community, in effect the Dawat became absolutely materialistic with no religion or humanity left in it.
He was crueler than Burhanuddin Maula but was a very shrewd at the same time. He never remained present at the scene of violence but stage managed them very carefully.

[guy_sam2005]

for insaaf,
how bout syedna abdullah badruddin saheb.syedna qutbuddin shaheed saheb,syedna abdeali saifuddin sahebor syedna yusuf najmuddin saheb,were they nice leaders....

[master.b00t]

S.insaaf saheb , to aapke hisab se burahanuddin maula is better than T.saifuddin maula, and T.saifuddin maula ke hi rakhe gaye steps par chale aur use aage badhaya. Mere khayal se aap ye kehna chahte he ki taher saifuddin maula aur burhanuddin maula dono me wo baat nahi thi ya he jo ek sachhe dawoodi bohra expect karta he. Sirf vaktitva ka hi bhed tha T.saifuddin maula internal nature (antarmuki)wale the aur burhanuddin maula offensive(bahirmukhi) he. Yane dono dai se ye expect puri nahi ho paayee.

[S. Insaf]

Look at the difference:
Just two examples of Taher Saifuddin Maula :-
1) After the humiliating defeat in the Chandabhoy Galla Case, Taher Saifuddin Maula went to Surat but he managed a murderous attack on Ebrahimji Adamji Peerbhoy and when Ebrahinji was admitted in Cama Hospital he sent flowers and wished him well as a childhood friend.
2) When Amtullah bai, the daughter-in-law of Sir Adamji died on 12th July 1930, Taher Saifuddin Maula refused her burial in the Bohra Kabrastan at Churni Road, then her body was buried in the nearby plot behind Sir Adamji Peerbhoy Sanatorium own by Sir Adamji's family. Taher Saifuddin Maula send four Bohra fanatics in the dead of night who dug out her buried body and thrown it naked on the foot path in front of the Sanatorium. Bombay Samachar wrote a front page Editorial with the photograph of the body lieing on the footpath. Morarji Desai who was the Home Minister of Bombay Province then was first person to see it. So he moved a motion in the assembly for prevention of excommunication stating that "Bohra Mullaji's powers are "Monstrous" (Shaitanic).
Three examples of Burhanuddin Maula:-
1) In June 1966 he went to Karachi and sent his men to kill Mulla Abbas Aurangabadi who entred in his house, tied him with a chair and burnt him alive by poured petrol on his body in broad day light. Mulla Abass died in the Karachi's Civil Hospital next day after giving his dieing declaration naming Burhanuddin Maula and his brother Yusuf Najmuddin as conspirators.
2) On 1st March 1973 the innocent women of Udaipur were molested and dishonoured in his presence. They were shouting Maula Bachao, Maula Bachao" but he kept smiling. That resulted in the mass revolt against Burhanuddin Maula in Udaipur.
3) Burhanuddin Maula traveled from Indore to Mumbai in the same air-craft in which Asghar Ali Engineer had boarded from Bhopal after addressing a Police workshop on communal harmony. One Amil Husain Bhai Saheb was abusing Mr. Engineer throughout the journey but Burhanuddin Maula said nothing. When he arrived at Mumbai airport he got down from the air-craft on wheel chair surrounded by his strongmen. But he came out told the Bohras waiting at airport that “Mallon” Engineer pushed him while getting down. Then the agitated crowd thrown stones at Asghar Ali Engineer and beat him up. The airport police was surprise, as reported in the newspapers that in a place like airport how the Bohras managed gather so many stones.
Thereafter Burhanuddin Maula's goon ransacked Asghar Ali's closed house and office and threw out his books outside. Again as per newspapers report on Police inspector from Santacruz Police station was quoted saying "These Bohras have out the copies of Quran too. Is Mr. Engineer's Quran is different then dharmguru's Quran?

[Human]

^
Once again so shocking to read. Thanks for throwing light on these matters Mr. Insaf.

I now think the orthodox bohras will come asking for proof for all that you stated, but that is only for the sake of it and not to concede in the argument. Because from within they know all these things happened and are true events.

Asking proof for these events is like asking proof against the politicians in India for corruption. Everyone knows it happens and maybe there's no record of it. Moreover a professional never leaves tracks behind! Thus it is a habit to erase all the proof and get nothing on the record.

[seeker110]

According to my father,Moula had to give the ownership of Saifee steel mills in Karachi to bribe himself out of turangaabadi case.He also turned in his shares in Ghandara industries to Ghaur Ayub.son of Ayub Khan. Whenever I hear A'burangabadi's name something always goes in my eyes.

[Hussain_KSA]

Brother Seeker 110

The exact name is Mr. Abbas Aurangabadi. He was burnt alvie by Syedna's goons in Karachi. Mr. Saifuddin Insaf could shed some light on this topic.

[master.b00t]

S.insaaf saheb why syedna did murder of abbas aurangabaadi any reason behind this story ? What matter why syedna took decision of murder?

[Hussain_KSA]

Mulla Abbas Aurangabadi was a brave fighter against the tyrannical authority of the Bohra high priest. His family was also put under social boycott. Mulla Abbas was a gifted orator and was a scholar of Isma‘ili faith and because of his oratory, he was able to attract a large number of people. In his sermons he used to criticize the irreligious ways of the high priest and his family. So the high priest bore grudge against him.

Mulla Aurangabadi also published a paper in Urdu dedicated to the cause of the reforms in the Bohra community. The high priest's followers threw acid at him as a result of which the left side of his face along with his left eye, was burnt. After this incident Mulla Abbas Aurangabadi left India and settled in Pakistan. But he continued his crusade for reforms from Karachi. However, the high priest did not spare him in Pakistan either. On 24 June 1966 while sitting in his house in Karachi a few persons rushed in, poured kerosene over Aurangabadi and set him ablaze.

Before his family could arrive the culprits escaped and Mulla Sahib was burnt alive. In his dying declaration he identified some of these culprits and accused the Bohra priesthood of complicity in the crime. A Muslim friend of Mulla Aurangabadi who had known the details of this incident offered to testify before the Nathwani commission. The commission took note of this incident though the witness could not come for deposition.

The source : http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/posting ... f=1&t=5009

[seeker110]

Sorry for the typo.I attended Abbas Aurangabadi's majlis in the days before his murder.We went to his house in karachi for the mohram majlis.We would compare him with Rasid Turabi and found him better.When we would leave at the end of majlis,we would see all the memon ladies with red eyes and runny noses.The murderer jumped out of first floor balcony,but landed on scooter.Was dressed in thick overcoat for protection against fire and a place to hide the fuel.
I was so angry after this incident that I wanted to blow up the perpetrators.Saify Mahal.My biggest failure in life so far.Those brothers who never heard him read a sermon I feel sorry for your loss.It takes a stupid low life person to kill a scholar like mulla Abbas Aurangabadi.

[S. Insaf]

Mulla Abbas Aurangabadi was a qualified Mulla from Surat Daras. Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb had conferred the title of Mulla on him. Trouble started when Mulla Saheb brought 4 orphan Bohra kids to his house in Madanpura Bombay and started giving them religious education. Some one reported that to the late Sayedna who called him asked him to stop sheltering and educating any one without his raza (permission). Mulla Abbas requested Sayedna to give raza but he was told "first you ask those kinds to leave your house" which Mulla Saheb refused.
After a week when he was as usual passing through a street of Madanpura near Jhoola Maidan, four goons of Sayedna caught him and threw acid on his face. Mulla Saheb's face was burnt and his left eye was lost in that attack. Mulla Abbas Aurangabadi was a scholar and poet of Urdu. He wrote an article exposing late Sayedna Saheb's terror tactics in Urdu daily "Inquilab". He then started reciting Vaiz organized by Sir Adamji Peerbhoy's family. He was knowledgeable and an excellent orator. With that his life became more miserable in Bombay so he migrated to Karachi in Pakistan. He stared a fortnightly “Munsif” in Urdu and opened a front against late Sayedna to safeguard the Bohra community’s properties in Pakistan. Late Sayedna Taher Saifuddin was tactful.
But when Sayedna Burhanuddin Saheb became Dai in 1965 he went to Karachi in 1966 and got rid of Mulla Abbas Saheb by putting him to death.

[ghulam muhammed]

how bout syedna abdullah badruddin saheb.syedna qutbuddin shaheed saheb,syedna abdeali saifuddin sahebor syedna yusuf najmuddin saheb,were they nice leaders....

How about Yusuf Najmuddin (who was murdered in egypt), Ismailji bhaisaab alias chand bhaisaab who had to run away overnite from poona for driving a bohra girl to suicide, were they nice offsprings > How about mola's wife, was she a good wife and good mother because there is never mention of her anywhere by your mola.

[S. Insaf]

guy_sam2005 wrote:
How bout Sayedna Abdullah Badruddin Saheb, Syedna Qutbuddin shaheed saheb, Syedna Abdeali saifuddin saheb? Were they nice leaders or not?

For these Dais the religion was a mission. And welfare of the community was their duty.
With last two Dais 51 and 52, the religion is to amass as much wealth as possible before kicking the bucket. And welfare of their own family is their duty.
Promise Jannat and let the community go to hell.

[guy_sam2005]

guy_sam2005 wrote:
How bout Sayedna Abdullah Badruddin Saheb, Syedna Qutbuddin shaheed saheb, Syedna Abdeali saifuddin saheb? Were they nice leaders or not?

For these Dais the religion was a mission. And welfare of the community was their duty.
With last two Dais 51 and 52, the religion is to amass as much wealth as possible before kicking the bucket. And welfare of their own family is their duty.
Promise Jannat and let the community go to hell.

how do u know,were u there?

[S. Insaf]

With this logic of yours, you can even doubt that there ever existed persons like the Prophet Mohammad or Hazrat Ali because you were not there to see them with your own eyes.
That whether your parents were born or they were simply dropped from sky because you were not present at the time of their birth.
Brother there is some thing known as written history or historical records.

[guy_sam2005]

With this logic of yours, you can even doubt that there ever existed persons like the Prophet Mohammad or Hazrat Ali because you were not there to see them with your own eyes.
That whether your parents were born or they were simply dropped from sky because you were not present at the time of their birth.
Brother there is some thing known as written history or historical records.

dude u were not born then..if u were present then u would have had problems with them too...dushmani'j tari fitnat che..u cant do anything else...all u want and can do is spread hatred..spew venom etc...if u were born in zamaan of rasullullah u would have had probs with his functioning too.if u were in hussain aqa zamaam u were more likely to join yazid....if u were in syedna qutbuddin shaheed zamaan,you were sure to testify against him only...its in ur blood

[guy_sam2005]

nd dont call me ur brother..........

[Smart]

@guy_sam,
Continuing in the same vein. How do you know your parents are your parents? Were you there? Talk sense, buddy! Do you ask such questions in your vaez? Do you ask for proofs there? Why the double standards?

[master.b00t]

guy_sam2005 ye tumhare apne thoughts nahi he, ye kothar ke readymade jawaab he jo tumhe sikhaye gaye he ek sawaal ke 10 tarah ke pakke kiye huwe readymade jawaab he jo tumhare dimaag par thok diye gaye he , "Ahi Tu Badha Ne Mama Na Samjaje" aavi badhi wato kari ne aa badhi dadagiri ne bhulawa ni try na karje. by force public na paisa looooooootwa , temne janam maran na prasango atkavi ne slave raakhwa, quraan ma jeno ullekhj nathi tevi babato ne farjiyaat obay karavavu aa kai bapuji no bagicho chhe ?

[S. Insaf]

Should all the lectures, Vaiz, noha, marsiyahs and books be banned because we had not witness to the matters and incidents described in them?
Should Quran, which has stories of earlier Prophets, be discarded?
Was Burhanuddin Saheb present at the battle of Karbala 1400 years back to know who killed whom and how?
Gentleman! You are raising too many questions for which you yourself have no answer.

[SBM]

Guy
How do you know that Shimr had 12 Ragras and had Lokhand na Joota and Kutra nu Mo, Was Syedna present there. OH YES DO NOT TELL ME THAT HE IS GHAIB NA AALIM SO HE KNOWS, if so how come he does not know the corruption in some of the Jamaats and corrupt Aamil which you have in your words accpted that corruption does exists so which is
GHAIB NA AALIM WHO DOES NOT KNOW ABOUT CORRUPTION OR A NON WITNESS TO THE EVENTS IN KARBALA MAKING UP STORIES, NO OTHER SHIA SCHOLAR OR KHAATIB TALKS ABOUT 12 RAGRAS AND LOKHAND NA JUTA ever except in Dawoodi Bohras Majaalis.

[guy_sam2005]

my point is you are the problem not anythin else.if u were born in before era,you would have had problems then too...........

[master.b00t]

Syedna aur unke follower ka ye kehna he ki agar Rasulullah ke time aap hote to bhi aap ko koi na koi objection zaroor hota jo abhi maula ke liye he !! kya Rasulullah me aur mohmad burhanuddin me koi farak nahi ? ye log andar se aisa hi sochte hi ki Rasulullah hum jaise hi the(syedna jaise) Rasulullah ka is se bada insult kya hoga. ghatiya log ki ghatiya soch. Ye log islaam ka insult hi kar rahe he , andar se, deep me Rasulullah ,Islaam ke prati respect nahi he.