Quran 2:184 - Bohras v/s rest sects

[anajmi]

Thanks for your above post. Alhamdolillah, it is the acknowledgement of intellectual defeat of Sunni faith.

Mubarak,

You kept repeating the same thing over and over again. You haven't said anything new. So I haven't accepted defeated. I have just accepted the uselessness of continuing this discussion with you.

As I have stated before, fixed number of days could mean 29 days or 30 days. The Quran doesn't say 29 or 30 and the prophet said 29 or 30. As per the scientific lunar calendar http://kalender-365.de/lunar-calendar.php the month of ramadan has both 29 and 30 days. Infact this last ramadan was of 29 days as per this calendar. The bohras have an erroneous calendar.

profastian

What if you are blind and you are marooned on a deserted island. Will you have every month of 30 days.

Brilliant question. You will however have an Amil on the deserted island with the dawoodi bohra calendar!!

What if there is storm season in your area. You can't see the sky let alone the moon?

What if the electric power plant is destroyed in the storm and the dawoodi bohra calendar cannot be printed?

What if you live near the poles where you have the sun for half the year? Will you have a 30 day month for 6 months?

Everyone living near the poles belong to the family of kumbhkaran. They sleep for half the year.

[ghulam muhammed]

As per Shri Mubarakji's pristine logic, even the prophet (saw) is going to hell because he never followed the dawoodi bohra calendar. I'd rather go with the prophet then with Shri Mubarakji!!

Bro anajmi,

Excellent statement. No one couldnt have said it any better.

[Mubarak]

As per Shri Mubarakji's pristine logic, even the prophet (saw) is going to hell because he never followed the dawoodi bohra calendar. I'd rather go with the prophet then with Shri Mubarakji!!

Bro anajmi,

Excellent statement. No one couldnt have said it any better.

Ghulam Muhammed,

Why don't you use your internet copy/paste skills and attempt to counter Quran 2:184, the challenge to ALL non-Dawoodi Bohras: You, your Yazeed friendly guru Zakir Naik, any Sunni or anyone – can you all prove from Quran that Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) practiced variable i.e. not-fixed period for Ramadan? You all cannot. Hence DB are only blessed to align per Quran 2:184 and rest all Islamic sects are not blessed.

[anajmi]

Can shri Mubarakji prove from the Quran that the fixed number of days is 30?

[ghulam muhammed]

Hence DB are only blessed to align per Quran 2:184 and rest all Islamic sects are not blessed.

.

YAAAAAAAWN

[ghulam muhammed]

BEWARE......... THE VENOMOUS SNAKE IS OUT OF THE "PITARA".

[Mubarak]

Can shri Mubarakji prove from the Quran that the fixed number of days is 30?

Ab-initio Quran 2:184 commands the Ramadan period to be fixed and not variable. It is not indicating period (29 or 30 days) but commanding that that period to be FIXED i.e. every Ramadan will have same fix period for every one.

In one city/country Sunni's will declare Eid in another city/country Sunni's will observe fast! Thus, collectively Sunni goes against the command of Allah mentioned in 2:184. Dawoodi Bohras have uniformity, in any part of the world they are they will observe uniformity in Ramadan and year-on-year they will have always fix period unlike Sunni.

Hence, ab-initio, the command of 2:184 is to have fix period and DB aligns it and Sunni's collectively don't.

[anajmi]

It is not indicating period (29 or 30 days) but commanding that that period to be FIXED

So Allah didn't know that the fixed number is 30 but Shri Mubarakji does?

[ghulam muhammed]

As per Mubarak's logic, the Prophet (s.a.w.) followed a fix number of days which can only be possible if one follows a fix calendar. Hence Rasul Allah (s.a.w.) must have definately followed a certain calendar (which as per Mubarak's pristine belief should have been a hijri/misri calendar). If that is the case then that hijri/misri calendar should definately be there, well preserved. Just like there exists the Prophet's holy cloak, His saafa, His stick and other belongings in Madina, even the Holy Quran written 1400 years ago exists at the Topkapi museum in Istanbul, Turkey. So the hijri/misri calendar followed by Prophet (s.a.w.) should be there.

[Mubarak]

It is not indicating period (29 or 30 days) but commanding that that period to be FIXED

So Allah didn't know that the fixed number is 30 but Shri Mubarakji does?

Anajmi,

By the same token: Allah didn’t know details of Salat, (As Allah is only ordering to offer Namaz but not giving its nitty-gritty in Quran)? And same for other pillars.

In Quran, Allah orders us to offer Namaz, but its details like how many ‘Rakat’ /reciting which sura in which ‘Rakat’ for different times are not mentioned. Likewise, Allah in 2:184 is ordering us to have fix period in Ramadan and not giving its details.

So, ab-initio the CATEGORICAL order of Allah in 2:184 is to have fix period for Ramadan.

The simple solution for the complex world of Islamic sects: to cast out all impure sects and filter the one pristine sect is Quran 2:184.

Alhamdolillah only Dawoodi Bohras is the sect to align per Quran 2:184 and rest all sects are not.

[anajmi]

The prophet (saw) told us how to perform salah, but he did not invent the dawoodi bohra calendar.

[Mubarak]

Anajmi,

Question 1) Quran 2:184 order is to have fix period for Ramadan. Does Sunni's & others obey Quran 2:184 order by observing fast for fix period?

Question 2) Does Sunni's believe: Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) acted per Quran 2:184? If your answer is "no" then our conversation stops here. If your answer is "yes", it means he has fixed period for Ramadan and Sunni plus others don't have fixed period thus you all don't follow Prophet Mohammed (s.a.).

[incredible]

@sunnis

did rasullullah ever fast for 28-29 days?

[anajmi]

Mubarak,

Question 1) Did the prophet (saw) have access to the Dawoodi Bohra calendar?

Question 2) Did the prophet (saw) begin a month by looking at the moon or not?

[anajmi]

.

[ghulam muhammed]

As per Mubarak's logic, the Prophet (s.a.w.) followed a fix number of days which can only be possible if one follows a fix calendar. Hence Rasul Allah (s.a.w.) must have definately followed a certain calendar (which as per Mubarak's pristine belief should have been a hijri/misri calendar). If that is the case then that hijri/misri calendar should definately be there, well preserved. Just like there exists the Prophet's holy cloak, His saafa, His stick and other belongings in Madina, even the Holy Quran written 1400 years ago exists at the Topkapi museum in Istanbul, Turkey. So the hijri/misri calendar followed by Prophet (s.a.w.) should be there.

Shri Mubarak Raj,

No answers for the above ? Are you running away just like your neta ran away from surat ?

[incredible]

@sunnis

did rasullullah ever fast for 28-29 days?

i am waiting for the historic answer....

[anajmi]

incredible,

As per authentic hadith, the prophet (saw) has said to fast for 29 days if you see the moon or 30 days, which means the prophet fasted for 29 or 30 days only. If you see the moon in 28 days, then you made a mistake while seeing it at the beginning of the month.

[incredible]

incredible,

As per authentic hadith, the prophet (saw) has said to fast for 29 days if you see the moon or 30 days, which means the prophet fasted for 29 or 30 days only. If you see the moon in 28 days, then you made a mistake while seeing it at the beginning of the month.

thankyou for the reply but can u please guide me to that authentic hadith refrence.

[anajmi]

If you have access to google, you can easily do a "moon sighting hadith" keyword search and you will find a lot of references.

From Bukhari

Volume 3, Book 31, Number 130:
Narrated Abdullah bin Umar:

Allah's Apostle mentioned Ramadan and said, "Do not fast unless you see the crescent (of Ramadan), and do not give up fasting till you see the crescent (of Shawwal), but if the sky is overcast (if you cannot see it), then act on estimation (i.e. count Sha'ban as 30 days)."

Volume 3, Book 31, Number 131:
Narrated Abdullah bin Umar:

Allah's Apostle said, "The month (can be) 29 nights (i.e. days), and do not fast till you see the moon, and if the sky is overcast, then complete Sha'ban as thirty days."

[anajmi]

Now consider this hadith which completely invalidates the dawoodi bohra calendar.

Volume 3, Book 31, Number 134:
Narrated Um Salama:

The Prophet vowed to keep aloof from his wives for a period of one month, and after the completion of 29 days he went either in the morning or in the afternoon to his wives. Someone said to him "You vowed that you would not go to your wives for one month." He replied, "The month is of 29 days."

[Muslim First]

Shri Mubarak Raj,

No answers for the above ? Are you running away just like your neta ran away from surat ?

Abde Raaj is waiting for Ilham from his Shaikh,

Br, anajmi, you are westing time with Abde Raaj and Incredible.

[Mubarak]

As per Mubarak's logic, the Prophet (s.a.w.) followed a fix number of days which can only be possible if one follows a fix calendar. Hence Rasul Allah (s.a.w.) must have definately followed a certain calendar (which as per Mubarak's pristine belief should have been a hijri/misri calendar). If that is the case then that hijri/misri calendar should definately be there, well preserved. Just like there exists the Prophet's holy cloak, His saafa, His stick and other belongings in Madina, even the Holy Quran written 1400 years ago exists at the Topkapi museum in Istanbul, Turkey. So the hijri/misri calendar followed by Prophet (s.a.w.) should be there.

Not per Mubarak but per Quran 2:184 logic.

Before we explore if any museum has preserved Prophet calendar, can you confirm in which state was it plotted by Prophet Mohammed: over leather or wood or metal or what?

GM, I understand you are associated with Dawoodi Bohra sect but u don't know anything about its authentic faith (not Burhanuddin sahib version). To your credit you know many of the unislamic practices of Kothar.

There is enough light in Quran 2:184 if you are ready to see, 2:184 filters all unclean sects out. Allah commands the Ramadan period has to be fixed and your all Sunni sects have variable period for Ramadan.

[Mubarak]

Mubarak,

Question 1) Did the prophet (saw) have access to the Dawoodi Bohra calendar?

Yes.
(Dawoodi Bohra calendar = Misri Calendar = Hijri Calendar = calendar) * printed or not-printed version: FIX period in nature, in line with Al Baqarah: Verse 189, Sura YaSeen verse 39 & 40

Question 2) Did the prophet (saw) begin a month by looking at the moon or not?

Yes.
Sighting moon doesn’t infers Prophet acted against 2:184 and observed variable period for Ramadan.

[Mubarak]

Anajmi,

Question 1) Quran 2:184 order is to have fix period for Ramadan. Does Sunni's & others obey Quran 2:184 order by observing fast for fix period?

Question 2) Does Sunni's believe: Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) acted per Quran 2:184? If your answer is "no" then our conversation stops here. If your answer is "yes", it means he has fixed period for Ramadan and Sunni plus others don't have fixed period thus you all don't follow Prophet Mohammed (s.a.).

Anajmi, it seems you are shy to answer above with intellectual honesty?

[anajmi]

Question 1) Quran 2:184 order is to have fix period for Ramadan. Does Sunni's & others obey Quran 2:184 order by observing fast for fix period?

Yes.
The prophet (saw) observed the moon for fixing the period of Ramadan and Sunnis do the same.

Question 2) Does Sunni's believe: Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) acted per Quran 2:184? If your answer is "no" then our conversation stops here. If your answer is "yes", it means he has fixed period for Ramadan and Sunni plus others don't have fixed period thus you all don't follow Prophet Mohammed (s.a.).

Yes.
The prophet (saw) observed the moon for fixing the period of Ramadan and Sunnis do the same.

[anajmi]

Mubarak,

Question 1) Did the prophet (saw) have access to the Dawoodi Bohra calendar?

Yes.
(Dawoodi Bohra calendar = Misri Calendar = Hijri Calendar = calendar) * printed or not-printed version: FIX period in nature, in line with Al Baqarah: Verse 189, Sura YaSeen verse 39 & 40

So the prophet was using a non printed version of the Dawoodi Bohra calendar. Since the bohras are using a printed version, then the bohras are not following the prophet and hence they are not following the Quran.

Question 2) Did the prophet (saw) begin a month by looking at the moon or not?

Yes.
Sighting moon doesn’t infers Prophet acted against 2:184 and observed variable period for Ramadan.[/quote]

If the prophet was using the Dawoodi bohra calendar, printed or not printed, then why was he sighting the moon? Didn't he trust the Dawoodi Bohra calendar? The Dawoodi Bohras do not site the moon.

[Muslim First]

Br anajmi
did you notice respect and reverence shown to what you call "mischief maker" by Humsafar and porus?

That's cause we believe that give respect where it is due.

When some trash talks, no need to give them any respect. but when one maintains dignity, we need to maintain it too.

Porus has always impressed us with his knowledge of Arabic and has taken issue with canned translations or tafseers but maintained total silance as far as Q 2:184 is concerned.

May be Shaikh porus can answer anajmi's quesrion, I am still waiting for which Imam decided 30 as the fixed number as per 2:184

Wasalaam

[Muslim First]

Br Mustafa
May be you want to answer br anajmi's question:

I am still waiting for which Imam decided 30 as the fixed number as per 2:184?
Wasalaam

[porus]

Porus has always impressed us with his knowledge of Arabic and has taken issue with canned translations or tafseers but maintained total silance as far as Q 2:184 is concerned.

Dear brother Muslim First Saheb,

' maintained total silance'? Not by a long shot. You can find my views in this thread:

http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... f=1&t=5338