Burhanuddin saab, please take note.....

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
ghulam muhammed
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Burhanuddin saab, please take note.....

#1

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:09 pm

Moula Ali (a.s.) once replied to a group of ten learned men who said, 'We seek your permission for our putting a question to you.'

Moula Ali (a.s.) replied, 'You are at perfect liberty.'

They said, 'Of knowledge and wealth, which is better and why.
Please give a separate answer to each of us

Moula Ali (a.s.) answered in ten parts:

1. Knowledge is the legacy of the Prophets; wealth is the inheritance of the Pharaohs. Therefore, knowledge is better than wealth

2. You are to guard your wealth but knowledge guards you. Therefore,
knowledge is better.

3. A man of wealth has many enemies, while a man of knowledge has many friends. Hence, knowledge is better.

4. Knowledge is better because it increases with distribution, while wealth decreases by that act.

5. Knowledge is better because a learned man is apt to be generous while a wealthy person is apt to be miserly.

6. Knowledge is better because it cannot be stolen while wealth can be stolen.

7. Knowledge is better because time cannot harm knowledge but wealth rusts in course of time and wears away.

8. Knowledge is better because it is boundless while wealth is limited and you can keep account of it.

9. Knowledge is better because it illuminates the mind while wealth is
apt to blacken it.

10. Knowledge is better because knowledge induced the humanity in our Prophet to say to GOD 'we worship thee as we are your servants,' while wealth engendered in Pharaoh and Nimrod the vanity which made them claim god-head.

Conscíous
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Re: Burhanuddin saab, please take note.....

#2

Unread post by Conscíous » Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:53 pm

Thank you for sharing this ^^.. I would love to read more.. about Moula Ali (a.s.)..

mumin
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Re: Burhanuddin saab, please take note.....

#3

Unread post by mumin » Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:11 pm

wonderful. tell me more, tell me more.

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Burhanuddin saab, please take note.....

#4

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:38 pm

Bro Boom and bro mumin,

Thanks a lot. I have many such pearls in my collection and will keep on posting them in due course.

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Burhanuddin saab, please take note.....

#5

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:12 pm

HAZRAT ALI (A.S.) AND SAVING WEALTH (MONEY)

Qambar, the servant of Hazrat Ali (A.S.) relates the following incident: "Once and only once Hazrat Ali (A.S.) got annoyed with me. It was the occasion when I showed him the money that I had hoarded. It was from my share of income given to me like others from the Muslim treasury and the gift I had received from the members of his family. I had no immediate use of it and had collected the amount. It was not much, being barely 100 dirhams. When I showed him the amount he looked annoyed and what pained me more was that he looked sad.

"I enquired as to why he was so sad. He said, Qambar, if you had no use of this money, were there not people around you who were in need of it, some of them might have been starving and some ill and infirm, could you not have helped them. I never thought that you could be so heartless and cruel, and could love wealth for the sake of wealth. Qambar, I am afraid you are not trying to acquire much from Islam, try more seriously and sincerely. Take these coins out of my house."
"I took them out and distributed them amongst the beggars in Kufa mosque."

Is money is everything?

Some people say 'money is everything'. It will be advisable for such people to consider the following facts:
"Money will buy a bed but not sleep, Books but not brains, Food but not appetite, Finery but not beauty, Medicine but not health; Luxuries but not culture, Amusements but not happiness, Passport to every where but not Heaven".

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Burhanuddin saab, please take note.....

#6

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:19 pm

HAZRAT ALI (A.S.) AND ANGER MANAGEMENT: DO THINGS FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAH ONLY


In the battle of Khandaq, the Muslims dug a ditch around themselves for their defense, so that the enemy could not get across.

A man from the enemy side called Amr bin Abdawud who was known for his strength, courage and art of fighting managed to get across the ditch.

All the Muslims were terrified to fight him and only Hazrat Ali (A.S.) came forward to fight this man.
There was a fierce fight until at last Hazrat Ali (A.S.) threw Amr down onto the ground and mounted his chest ready to kill him.

Just as Hazrat Ali (A.S.) was about to kill this enemy of Islam, he spit on the face of Hazrat Ali (A.S.).

Everybody was certain that because of this insult, Amr would meet his death even faster still, but to their amazement, Hazrat Ali (A.S.) moved from Amr's chest and walked away.

Amr attacked Hazrat Ali (A.S.) again and after a short while, Hazrat Ali (A.S.) again overpowered Amr and killed him.
After the battle was over people asked Hazrat Ali (A.S.) the reason why he had spared Amr's life when he had first overpowered him.

To which Hazrat Ali (A.S.) replied that if he had killed him then it would have not been only for the sake of Allah but also for the satisfaction of his anger and so he let him free.

Then Hazrat Ali (A.S.) controlled his anger and killed Amr purely for the sake of Allah.

Moral: Although your intention may be pure to begin with it can very easily change so always make sure you do things for the sake of Allah only.

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Burhanuddin saab, please take note.....

#7

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:26 pm

WHAT ENEMIES SAID ABOUT HAZRAT ALI (A.S.)? SIMPLICITY IN ISLAM


Abu Sa'id Mansur bin Husayn Abi (422 A.H.) writes thus in his book entitled Nathrud Durar: Ahnaf bin Qays says,
"One day I went to see Muawiyah. He had laid a wonderful dinner carpet. He brought all sorts of hot, cold, sweet, and sour foods for me. I was wonderstruck. Later, as ordered by him, another dish of a different kind of food was brought in. I tried my best to find out what it was but did not succeed. I, therefore, enquired about it from Muawiyah. He replied that it consisted of the intestines of a duck which had been filled with the marrow of the sheep and had then been fried in pistachio oil and finally sugar had been sprinkled on it.

I began to weep. He asked me: "Why are you weeping?" I replied, "I have been reminded of the life of Hazrat Ali (A.S.). I remember that one day I was with him. When the time for dinner and breaking the fast drew near he asked me to remain with him. A sealed leather case was brought to him. I asked him what it contained and he told me that there was barley flour in it". I asked him, "Why have you sealed it? Are you afraid that others may take some of it or do you not wish that anyone else should eat it?" He replied, "Who else? As a matter of fact I am afraid that my sons Hasan and Hussain may not taint it with butter or olive oil." I said, "O Commander of the Faithful! Is it prohibited?" He replied, "No. It is not prohibited.

However, it is necessary for the true administrators and rulers to consider themselves to be the most deprived persons so that poverty and distress may not press and squeeze the indigent".

When I had said this, Muawiyah interrupted and said, "You have mentioned a man whose excellence cannot be denied by anyone".

Mubarak
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Re: Burhanuddin saab, please take note.....

#8

Unread post by Mubarak » Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:34 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:HAZRAT ALI (A.S.) AND ANGER MANAGEMENT: DO THINGS FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAH ONLY


In the battle of Khandaq, the Muslims dug a ditch around themselves for their defense, so that the enemy could not get across.

A man from the enemy side called Amr bin Abdawud who was known for his strength, courage and art of fighting managed to get across the ditch.

All the Muslims were terrified to fight him and only Hazrat Ali (A.S.) came forward to fight this man.
There was a fierce fight until at last Hazrat Ali (A.S.) threw Amr down onto the ground and mounted his chest ready to kill him.

Just as Hazrat Ali (A.S.) was about to kill this enemy of Islam, he spit on the face of Hazrat Ali (A.S.).

Everybody was certain that because of this insult, Amr would meet his death even faster still, but to their amazement, Hazrat Ali (A.S.) moved from Amr's chest and walked away.

Amr attacked Hazrat Ali (A.S.) again and after a short while, Hazrat Ali (A.S.) again overpowered Amr and killed him.
After the battle was over people asked Hazrat Ali (A.S.) the reason why he had spared Amr's life when he had first overpowered him.

To which Hazrat Ali (A.S.) replied that if he had killed him then it would have not been only for the sake of Allah but also for the satisfaction of his anger and so he let him free.

Then Hazrat Ali (A.S.) controlled his anger and killed Amr purely for the sake of Allah.

Moral: Although your intention may be pure to begin with it can very easily change so always make sure you do things for the sake of Allah only.
All the Muslims were terrified to fight him and only Hazrat Ali (A.S.) came forward to fight this man.
This means that Shri Abu bakr, Shri Umar and Shri Usman were terrified to fight with Amr ibn Abdawad. And only Mola Ali (a.s.) has courage, abilty, purest love for Islam more than self life to fight him.

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Burhanuddin saab, please take note.....

#9

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:31 pm

Mubarak wrote:This means that Shri Abu bakr, Shri Umar and Shri Usman were terrified to fight with Amr ibn Abdawad. And only Mola Ali (a.s.) has courage, abilty, purest love for Islam more than self life to fight him.
Here comes the number one FITNATI who spares no effort in his endeavour to spit venom and hijack every thread and reduce it to abuses of the sahabas. This is what his so called PRISTINE religion and his guru Shri Raj have taught him to be.

Instead of carrying forward the topic to its logical conclusion which is the greatness of Mola Ali (a.s.), this FITNATI like some other abdes on this forum is more interested in slandering others with his ONLY source of knowledge... Daimul Islam as interpreted by his neta Shri Ahmed Ali Raj. His neta must have never tried to create 'fitnah' as he seemed to be one of a sober character and he must be repenting for having such chelas.

Mubarak
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Re: Burhanuddin saab, please take note.....

#10

Unread post by Mubarak » Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:34 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:
Mubarak wrote:This means that Shri Abu bakr, Shri Umar and Shri Usman were terrified to fight with Amr ibn Abdawad. And only Mola Ali (a.s.) has courage, abilty, purest love for Islam more than self life to fight him.
Here comes the number one FITNATI who spares no effort in his endeavour to spit venom and hijack every thread and reduce it to abuses of the sahabas. This is what his so called PRISTINE religion and his guru Shri Raj have taught him to be.

Instead of carrying forward the topic to its logical conclusion which is the greatness of Mola Ali (a.s.), this FITNATI like some other abdes on this forum is more interested in slandering others with his ONLY source of knowledge... Daimul Islam as interpreted by his neta Shri Ahmed Ali Raj. His neta must have never tried to create 'fitnah' as he seemed to be one of a sober character and he must be repenting for having such chelas.

First, I am quoting what you have written hence you cannot disprove what I wrote.

Now when you are vulnerable and answerless, to defend your ego and trio caliphs you are detouring and adopting time tested route of accusing other as fitnati - ‘naach na jane, aangan teda’.

Here my source of knowledge is your post and not Daim-ul-islam.

Be intellectual honest by either countering what I wrote, which you cannot or accept that your trio caliphs per you were terrified in Islamic battles.

canadian
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Re: Burhanuddin saab, please take note.....

#11

Unread post by canadian » Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:35 pm

Brother Ghulam Muhammed:

I second what you said about Mubarak. This Mubarak behaves as if he is a "staunch defender" of the Dawoodi Bohra faith. I feel ashamed that my community has such venomous people.
Thank God that we have also people like Asgharali Engineer, S. Insaaf, Porus, Al Zulfiqar, etc. to counteract such bigotry.

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Burhanuddin saab, please take note.....

#12

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:31 pm

Mubarak wrote:‘naach na jane, aangan teda’
This proverb is actually tailormade for you bcoz no matter whatever be the 'naach', your 'aangan' is always teda leaning towards the venom which is stored in your veins
Mubarak wrote: defend your ego and trio caliphs
Firstly I dont have any ego problem like you and whatever I state is only the result of comparative study of religion which you THOUROUGHLY LACK bcoz you are a 'kunwa me medak' who cannot see anything beyond daimul islam and your neta shri raj, its high time you come out of your kuwa although at first sight you will faint on seeing the huge and vast oceans around the world. Secondly my only neta is Nabi (s.a.w.) and no doubles and trios, by the way dont forget that a 'trio' is supposed to be the TOP cards in the game and if you are lucky to have it then you have no chance of losing, so see how in your desperation to slander the sahabas you have actually elevated them in your own words.

Conscíous
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Re: Burhanuddin saab, please take note.....

#13

Unread post by Conscíous » Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:18 pm

,
What a pious life, Moula Ali (a.s.) lived as.. He really makes me wonder, about a lot of things..

Thank you again, brother Ghulam Muhammed for sharing such pearls.. I am, eagerly waiting for your next post..

Mubarak
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Re: Burhanuddin saab, please take note.....

#14

Unread post by Mubarak » Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:12 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:
Mubarak wrote:‘naach na jane, aangan teda’
This proverb is actually tailormade for you bcoz no matter whatever be the 'naach', your 'aangan' is always teda leaning towards the venom which is stored in your veins
Mubarak wrote: defend your ego and trio caliphs
Firstly I dont have any ego problem like you and whatever I state is only the result of comparative study of religion which you THOUROUGHLY LACK bcoz you are a 'kunwa me medak' who cannot see anything beyond daimul islam and your neta shri raj, its high time you come out of your kuwa although at first sight you will faint on seeing the huge and vast oceans around the world. Secondly my only neta is Nabi (s.a.w.) and no doubles and trios, by the way dont forget that a 'trio' is supposed to be the TOP cards in the game and if you are lucky to have it then you have no chance of losing, so see how in your desperation to slander the sahabas you have actually elevated them in your own words.
Dear Ghulam Muhammad,

Hypothesis:
Per Ghulam Muhammad:
All the Muslims were terrified to fight him (Amr bin Abdawud) and only Hazrat Ali (A.S.) came forward to fight this man.
This means: trio caliphs were terrified to fight with Amar ibn Abdawud in holy Jihad in battlefield and only Mola Ali (a.s.) has the acumen to fight and defeat him.

All what you wrote in your last post, how does it counter above hypothesis???

You are citing card game example to defend your trio caliphs :D :D :D . FYI, Per Quran gambling is Haram…now if you want to equal your trio caliphs with card game, it is your discretion…

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Burhanuddin saab, please take note.....

#15

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:36 pm

Mubarak wrote:This means: trio caliphs were terrified to fight with Amar ibn Abdawud in holy Jihad in battlefield and only Mola Ali (a.s.) has the acumen to fight and defeat him.

All what you wrote in your last post, how does it counter above hypothesis???
There were many other noble sahabas and ummatis who were also present there and some of which are highly revered by shias/bohras and people with lopsided views like you but you chose only the khulfa-e-rashidin in your outburst which is quite expected from people with a narrow and biased mind which is full of venom and hatred. You conveniently and deliberately choose to ignore the ones for whom you have a soft corner.

You and other so called believers of Mola Ali (a.s.) hurl abuses on the khalifas and ummul mumineen on the drop of a hat 24 x 7 but conveniently and deliberately IGNORE the real and true villians of Karbala who were mainly responsible for the shahadat of the son of Mola Ali (a.s.) and if not for their BETRAYAL, DISHONESTY AND COWARDICE, the battle in karbala would have never been fought and Imam Hussain (a.s.) and the other shahadas would have never met such a tragic end...... those disloyal,cowards and opportunistic people were the SHIAS OF KUFA. Probably you and other like minded shias/bohras have an umbilical cord like attachment with them.
Mubarak wrote:You are citing card game example to defend your trio caliphs . FYI, Per Quran gambling is Haram…now if you want to equal your trio caliphs with card game, it is your discretion…
This card game example was initiated by YOU only a long time back as otherwise you wouldnt have used the word 'trio' and it is a matter of commonsense that your intention was to link them with the card game but now as the same has backfired on you, you are taking a reverse stand. Further, there are plenty of things that are haraam in Islam and one of it is to deliberately and intentionally abuse the dead ones. I dont think that any religion on this planet permits the abuse of dead ones as the same is considered as one of the greatest sins and also it is against the basic principles of humanity which even a lay man will agree to.

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Burhanuddin saab, please take note.....

#16

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:43 pm

YOU SHOULD ALWAYS GIVE AWAY THE NICER THING: SIMPLICITY IN ISLAM

One day, Mola Ali (A.S.) went to the market with his servant, Qambar. There he bought two shirts, one which was really nice and expensive and the other which was not as nice.

When Mola Ali (A.S.) returned home he gave the better shirt to Qambar and kept the other one for himself.

Qambar told Mola Ali (A.S.) that it would look better if he wore the nicer shirt as he was the leader of the Muslims (Commander of the Faithful) while Qambar himself was only a servant.

Mola Ali (A.S.) answered that Qambar should wear the nicer shirt because he was younger and so it would suit him better; but more importantly Mola Ali (A.S.) told him that he was a guide for the Muslims and so had to set a good example for them by leading a simple life.

Al-Muizz
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Re: Burhanuddin saab, please take note.....

#17

Unread post by Al-Muizz » Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:29 pm

canadian wrote:Brother Ghulam Muhammed:

I second what you said about Mubarak. This Mubarak behaves as if he is a "staunch defender" of the Dawoodi Bohra faith. I feel ashamed that my community has such venomous people.
Thank God that we have also people like Asgharali Engineer, S. Insaaf, Porus, Al Zulfiqar, etc. to counteract such bigotry.

Wonderful.... perceived bigotry countered by more perceived bigotry......

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Burhanuddin saab, please take note.....

#18

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:40 pm

A person was about to die, and before dying he wrote his Will which went as follows:

"I have 17 Camels, and I have three sons. Divide my Camels in such a way that my eldest son gets half of them, the second one gets 1/3rd of the total and my youngest son gets 1/9th of the total number of Camels."

After his death when the relatives read his will they got extremely perplexed and said to each other that how can we divide 17 camels like this.

So after a long hard thought they decided that there was only one man in Arabia who could help them: "Mola Ali (AS)." (Now Mubarak will come up with his routine outburst ...... that the other 3 khalifas were dumb) :lol: :lol:

So they all came to the door of Imam Ali (AS) and put forward their problem.

Mola Ali (AS) said, "Ok, I will divide the camels as per the man's will."

Mola Ali (AS) said, "I will lend one of my camels to the total which makes it 18 (17+1=18), now lets divide as per his will."

The eldest son gets 1/2 of 18 = 9
The second one gets 1/3 of 18 = 6
The youngest gets 1/9 of 18 = 2
Now the total number of camels = 17 (9+6+2=17)


Then Mola Ali (AS) said, "Now I will take my Camel back."

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Burhanuddin saab, please take note.....

#19

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:53 pm

Martyrdom of Mola Ali (A.S.):

After the battle of Neherwan was over, a group of Khwarij daily held a meeting in Mecca and wept over their dead, those killed in Neherwan. One day, they told each other, "Sitting here and weeping is of no use. We should kill these three persons Ali (A.S.), Muawiyah and Amro Aas, who destroyed the Islamic State and killed our brothers."

They invited three volunteers to perform these errands. Ibn-e-Muljim stood and said, "I will kill Ali (A.S.)." Hajjaj bin Abdullah, under took killing Muawiyah and Amro bin Bakr Taimeemi said, "I will kill Amro Aas." The three of them made a commitment together that they would materialize their plan on the 19th of Ramadan. Then, each one of them moved towards the place of his mission, so that they reach there and wait for the date, which was fixed.

But alas, the other two did not succeed in achieving their end, whereas, Ibn-e-Muljim did succeed. Ibn-e-Muljim came to Kufa and contacted the enemies of Ali (A.S.) and lived in their house till the 19th of Ramadan approached. One day Ali (A.S.) came across him in the streets of Kufa. He wanted to hide himself. But Ali (A.S.) said, "I know for what purpose you have come to Kufa."
As soon as Ibn-e-Muljim heard these words, he trembled and his legs could no more carry him. He said to Ali (A.S.), "Oh Ali (A.S.) when it is so (that you know) release the orders of my being killed or put me in the prison or banish me off. Ali (A.S.) had a look upon him and said, "Although I can put into practice each one of your suggestions, but Islam does not deem pre-crime punishment, fair. So I am obliged to let you go free. Perhaps you may repent upon your decision.

At last, on the 19th of Ramadan of the 40th Hijra the son of Muradi opened apart Ali's (A.S.) head and the mountain of faith and piety tumbled and crumbled down making the world of Islam mournful.

After Ali (A.S.) cried on the prayer place (when injured), "By the God of Kaabah I have succeeded." The heaven's angel Jabriel shouted, "By God, the pillars of guidance are demolished. Ali (A.S.) has been martyred."

People rushed out of their houses and arrested the killer of Ali (A.S.) and handed him over to Imam Hassan (A.S.), and carried Ali (A.S.) with a blood stained face to his house.

Imam Hassan (A.S.) imprisoned the killer and informed his father about it.

Mola Ali (A.S.) told his son, "Oh Son! This man who is my killer and he is your prisoner, look after his food and water and do not molest him. If I survive I know what to do with him and if I die then do not strike him but one blow."

Alas, Ali (A.S.) did not survive for this ummah. He passed away on the 21st of Ramadan at the age of 63 yean His pure body was burried secretly at Najaf (Iraq).

broadminded
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Re: Burhanuddin saab, please take note.....

#20

Unread post by broadminded » Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:55 pm

Brother, Eid Mubarak..please continue sharing these anecdotes. Mola Ali, our Imam and leader, so earnest and humble!

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Burhanuddin saab, please take note.....

#21

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:41 pm

From Nahjul Balaga (Peak of Eloquence) :-

Harish-ibne-Shail, one of the governors of the provinces, was in Koofa. Once he was riding through the city and saw Mola Ali (a.s.) also riding. He got down from his horse to accompany Mola Ali (a.s.) on foot. Mola Ali (a.s.) immediately stopped him and said, “It ill-becomes a man to lower down himself before any body but his God. Please get upon your horse. Even had you not been an officer of the state but an ordinary person, I would not have allowed you to lower yourself like this. The sight of such humiliation of man before man never pleases me. It is worst form of tyranny which can be practiced.”

Please compare this act of Mola Ali (a.s.) with the acts of the present day burhanuddin saab who makes his followers stand with folded hands around him while he is eating or while he is passing by in a car or buggy etc. and think about Mola Ali’s statement, “The sight of such humiliation of man before man never pleases me. It is worst form of tyranny which can be practiced.”

mumin
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Re: Burhanuddin saab, please take note.....

#22

Unread post by mumin » Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:02 pm

such grace and simplicity of moula ali cannot be found anywhere. I would like ,if at all possible ask Mr: ghulam of mohammed to translate this epic character and conduct of moula Ali in urdu and gujrati. and post it on web. let the old timers who may be lacking in english read it in gujrati.

porus
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Re: Burhanuddin saab, please take note.....

#23

Unread post by porus » Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:46 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:
You. ...... conveniently and deliberately IGNORE the real and true villians of Karbala who were mainly responsible for the shahadat of the son of Mola Ali (a.s.) and if not for their BETRAYAL, DISHONESTY AND COWARDICE, the battle in karbala would have never been fought and Imam Hussain (a.s.) and the other shahadas would have never met such a tragic end...... those disloyal,cowards and opportunistic people were the SHIAS OF KUFA.
I read history differently. Imam Husain was challenging Yazid not just for the Shia but on behalf of all the Muslims. The term Shia did not have the nuance that we understand it today. It is not appropriate to describe the then people of Kufa as Shia despite Nasibi/Salafi propaganda to the contrary. They were Muslims who had sought Imam Husain's support to rid themselves of Yazid's tyranny. Most were not warriors but unarmed civilians.

In the event, Kufa and its civilians were ruthlessly suppressed by Ubaydullah bin Ziyad's Umayyad army. It was 'high noon' for Husain but he would understand the pressure brought upon the Kufans to silence them at 'sword's edge' for the lives of their families, women and children.

The real villains remain Yazid, Ubaydullha bin Ziyad and Shimr bin al-Jawshan. Their crimes predate Kufans' reaction against them. Muawiyah, Yazid's father, was responsible for fitnah against Ali's authority as Khalifa and murder of Imam Hasan. And Muawiya was primarily responsible for instigating Aisha to engage in the battle of the Camel. Villainy originated with Muawiya's father, Abu Sufyan, a munafiq and a bitter enemy of the Prophet and Islam.

The revisionist claims of Nasibis/Salafis of blaming the Shia for murder of Husain is a recent transparent attempt to turn history on its head. It is better to see it for what it is. One more scurrilous chapter in ongoing fitnah within Islam.

Muslim First
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Re: Burhanuddin saab, please take note.....

#24

Unread post by Muslim First » Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:43 am

Br. GM

Porus just called you Nasabi (haters of Ahl-Bayt)!!

porus
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Re: Burhanuddin saab, please take note.....

#25

Unread post by porus » Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:14 am

Muslim First wrote:Br. GM

Porus just called you Nasabi (haters of Ahl-Bayt)!!
That is not correct. GM has lifted the accusation against the Shia from a book, I believe, by Shabbir Ahmed. Shabbir Ahmed revises history to suit his anti-Shia beliefs. I do not think that GM is a Nasibi.

Muslim First
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Re: Burhanuddin saab, please take note.....

#26

Unread post by Muslim First » Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:45 pm

Br. Porus

Can you name a group of people who are nasabi in this day and age?

porus
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Re: Burhanuddin saab, please take note.....

#27

Unread post by porus » Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:13 am

Muslim First wrote:Br. Porus

Can you name a group of people who are nasabi in this day and age?
nasibi = extreme wahhabi = modern day salafi.

Please read "The great theft : wrestling Islam from the extremists" by Khaled Abou El Fadl.

Muslim First
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Re: Burhanuddin saab, please take note.....

#28

Unread post by Muslim First » Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:56 am

I do not think Nasabi is what you describe.

Nasabi is one who hates Ahl-e-Bait.

there is difference between haters of Ahl-e-bait (Nasabi) and haters of worshipper and extreame lovers of Ahl-e-bait.

seeker110
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Re: Burhanuddin saab, please take note.....

#29

Unread post by seeker110 » Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:39 pm

"there is difference between haters of Ahl-e-bait (Nasabi) and haters of worshipper and extreame lovers of Ahl-e-bait" by Br MF.
Haters of anything or anyone is such a negative feeling,More like burning in your own Juice.

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Burhanuddin saab, please take note.....

#30

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:04 pm

porus wrote:I read history differently. Imam Husain was challenging Yazid not just for the Shia but on behalf of all the Muslims. The term Shia did not have the nuance that we understand it today. It is not appropriate to describe the then people of Kufa as Shia despite Nasibi/Salafi propaganda to the contrary. They were Muslims who had sought Imam Husain's support to rid themselves of Yazid's tyranny. Most were not warriors but unarmed civilians.

In the event, Kufa and its civilians were ruthlessly suppressed by Ubaydullah bin Ziyad's Umayyad army. It was 'high noon' for Husain but he would understand the pressure brought upon the Kufans to silence them at 'sword's edge' for the lives of their families, women and children.

The real villains remain Yazid, Ubaydullha bin Ziyad and Shimr bin al-Jawshan. Their crimes predate Kufans' reaction against them. Muawiyah, Yazid's father, was responsible for fitnah against Ali's authority as Khalifa and murder of Imam Hasan. And Muawiya was primarily responsible for instigating Aisha to engage in the battle of the Camel. Villainy originated with Muawiya's father, Abu Sufyan, a munafiq and a bitter enemy of the Prophet and Islam.

The revisionist claims of Nasibis/Salafis of blaming the Shia for murder of Husain is a recent transparent attempt to turn history on its head. It is better to see it for what it is. One more scurrilous chapter in ongoing fitnah within Islam.

Bro Porus,

It is very easy and convenient for people, especially the sectarian leaders to reject a part of history if the same becomes a source of embarrassment for them or if it doesnt suit their hidden agenda. The invitations of the kufans to Imam Hussain (a.s.) and the subsequent martyrdom of Muslim bin Aqil (a.s.) is well known hence I will not dwell into it in details but examine the same briefly :-

There have been attempts by certain writers to absolve the Shî‘ah from the crime of deserting Husain (a.s.). Some find an excuse for them in Ibn Ziyâd’s blockade of Kûfah. S. H. M. Jafri writes in his book The Origins and Early Developments of Shi’ah Islam:

…it should be noted again that the blockade of all the roads coming into Kûfah and its vicinity made it almost impossible for the majority of those Shî‘aîs of Kûfah who were in hiding, and also for those residing in other cities like Basra.


This explanation of their desertion does not seem plausible when one considers the large number (18'000) of those who had taken the bay‘ah at the hands of Muslim ibn ‘Aqîl. Ibn Ziyâd, as we have seen, entered Kûfah with only 17 men. Even the force that he dispatched to engage the party of Imam Husain (a.s.) at Karbalâ consisted of only 4000 men. Furthermore, that force was not recruited specifically for Karbalâ; it was only passing through Kûfah on its way to fight the Daylamites. It is not at all credible to assume that Ibn Ziyâd was able to cow the Kûfans into submission with forces such as these, whom they outnumbered by far. It was rather their own treacherousness and fickleness that led them to abandon Imam Husain (a.s.). This can be clearly seen in the manner they deserted Muslim ibn ‘Aqîl.

There is also the tendency of claiming that those who deserted Imam Husain (a.s.) were not of the Shî‘ah. Jafri writes:

… of those who invited Husain (a.s.) to Kûfah, and then those 18,000 who paid homage to his envoy Muslim bin ‘Aqîl, not all were Shî‘aîs in the religious sense of the term, but were rather supporters of the house of ‘Alî for political reasons - a distinction which must be kept clearly in mind in order to understand the early history of Shi'ia Islam.

Jafri' s motive in excluding the deserters of Imam Husain (a.s.) from the ranks of the “religious” (as opposed to the “political”) supporters of the house of Mola ‘Alî (a.s.) is quite transparent. He is clearly embarrassed by the fact that it was the Shî‘ah themselves who abandoned their Imââm and his family after inviting him to lead them in revolt. What leads us to reject this distinction between “religious” and “political” supporters is the fact that Imam Husain (a.s.) himself, on more than one occasion, referred to the Kûfans as his Shî‘ah. There are also the numerous references to the people of Kûfah as the followers (albeit capricious followers) of his father and brother. And were we to assume that many, or even most of them were not Shî‘ah in the “religious” sense, the question which next presents itself is: Where were the real Shî‘ah when their Imââm required their help? Were they only that handful who emerged from Kûfah? It is strange that while there is so much reluctance on the part of the Shî‘ah to attach these of Kûfans as their own, they are quite proud and eager to identify themselves with the movement of the Tawwâbûn. The speeches made at the inception of the movement of the Tawwâbûn very clearly prove that they were the same people who invited Imam Husain (a.s.) and then deserted him. Their very name is indicative of their guilt in this regard. The attempt by the Shî‘ah to absolve themselves from the crime of deserting Imam Husain (a.s.) is therefore at best nothing more than pathetic.

And when the sun set on the 10th of Muharram, it was too late for the faithless Shî‘ah of Kûfah to make amends, for the sands of Karbalâ was stained red with the blood of Imam Husain (a.s.) and his seventy-one followers.

Four years later the Shî‘ah of Kûfah attempted to make amends for their desertion of the family of Rasûlullâh (s.a.w.). There emerged a group of Kûfans calling themselves the Tawwâbûn (Penitents) who made it their duty to wreak vengeance upon the killers of Husain (a.s.). On their way to Syria in pursuit of Ibn Ziyâd they passed by Karbalâ, the site of Imam Husain's grave, where they raised a great hue and cry, and spent the night lamenting the tragedy which they allowed to happen four years earlier. Had they only displayed that same spirit of compassion for Husain (a.s.) when he was so much in need of it the history of Islâm might have taken a different course.

Karbalâ was not to be the last act of treason by the Shî‘ah against the Family of Rasûlullâh (s.a.w.). Sixty years later the grandson of Imam Husain (a.s.), namely Zayd ibn ‘ Alî ibn Husain (a.s.), led an uprising against the Umayyad ruler Hishâm ibn ‘Abd al-Malik. He received the oaths of allegiance of over 40'000 men, 15'000 of whom were from the very same Kûfah that deserted his grandfather. Just before the battle could start Zayd was left with only a few hundred men. Zayd and his little army fought bravely and attained martyrdom.

Thus, on Wednesday the 1st of Safar 122 AH another member of the Ahl al-Bayt fell victim to the treachery of the Shî‘ah of Kûfah. This time there could be no question as to whether those who deserted him were of the Shî‘ah or not.

The fact that the thousands of Shî‘ah who deserted Zayd ibn ‘Alî looked upon Ja‘far as-Sâdiq (a.s.) as their true Imââm shows that by and large they were the same as the Ithnâ ‘Asharî, or alternatively Imâmî or Ja‘farî Shî‘ah of today.

Before Imam Husain (a.s.), his elder brother Imam Hasan (a.s.) was the victim of the treacherousness of the Kûfans. In his book al-Ihtijâj the prominent Shî'ah author Abû Mansûr at-Tabarsî has preserved the following remark of Imam Hasan (a.s.):

By Allâh, I think Mu‘âwiyah would be better for me than these people who claim that they are my Shî‘ah.

If today ‘Âshûrâ will be commemorated as a day of struggle and sacrifice, let it also be remembered as a day of treachery and desertion. When the names of Yazîd ibn Mu‘âwiyah, ‘Ubaydullâh ibn Ziyâd, ‘Umar ibn Sa‘d and Shamir ibn Dhil Jawshan are mentioned and curses invoked upon their memories, then let us not forget the treachery of the Shî‘ah of Kûfah. The time has long been due for the Shî‘ah to reintroduce into their ‘Âshûrâ ceremonies an aspect that was in fact part of the very first commemoration ceremony of the Tawwâbûn. That lost aspect is the admission of their own guilt, along with that of Ibn Ziyâd, Yazîd and others, in the shedding of the holy blood of Imam Husain ibn ‘Alî (a.s.).