syedna vs agha khan

[incredible]

Bismillah alrahman al rahim...


this is a point to be noted that syedna is practising islaam unlike agha khan who has altered islaam in every possible way,they dance drink and gamble and it is present in the sight of world as a truth,compare to syedna who is still stressing on islamic values,we bohra follow quraan and sunnah of muhammed(saw) in every possible way ,now i wonder tho syedna is following islaam still he has so much oppose from people like progressive so what about agha khaan dont he have any critics for distorting islaam and ismaili shia image world wide.

[aftabm]

Exactly, why do you think Syedna Saheb is being opposed ny "we-small-brained-faithless-jahannam ma jalso" progressives/reformists, depsite his knowledge, steadfastness on islamic values and all the virtues that bohra followers believes he has.....

Some thing to ponder about.

[salim]

Hi Incredible,

You are judging others faith. Let Allah be the judge.

they dance drink and gamble

I am Ismaili - I do dance with joy sometimes but I don't drink and gamble. Most of the Nizari Ismailis do not drink and gamble.

I, at least know 2 bohris who drink and gamble.

Aga khan has worned those who drink and gamble to stop. We ismailis are either professional or business owners, it does not make sense for us to drink and gamble. Like any other community, we do have some people who do drink and gamble.

I don't know your intention of lying and what you are trying to achieve with it.

[incredible]

Hi Incredible,

You are judging others faith. Let Allah be the judge.

they dance drink and gamble

I am Ismaili - I do dance with joy sometimes but I don't drink and gamble. Most of the Nizari Ismailis do not drink and gamble.

I, at least know 2 bohris who drink and gamble.

Aga khan has worned those who drink and gamble to stop. We ismailis are either professional or business owners, it does not make sense for us to drink and gamble. Like any other community, we do have some people who do drink and gamble.

I don't know your intention of lying and what you are trying to achieve with it.

isnt ur imam owns horses and bet on them? i have pics of his daughter in short clothes which is not nearer to hijab of islam,how do u clarify it?

on what basis ur imam nullified namaz and other pillars of islaam?

[incredible]

here is mr agha khan with girls in bikini lool


http://www.google.co.in/images?hl=en&so ... =&gs_rfai=

wah bhai wah hazar imam with such qualities.i am sure rasullulah,imam Ali and Hussain would have beheaded such ****

[incredible]

princess yasmin binte aghakhan

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/pr/subs/swimsuit/ ... net_06.jpg

btw she is hot

[incredible]

Begum jii

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1071/728 ... 5a1c63.jpg

[incredible]

http://www.paklinks.com/gsmedia/files/5 ... riends.jpg


http://www.paklinks.com/gsmedia/files/5 ... a-khan.jpg

[Smart]

Why compare the syedna with the aga khan?

Both should be judged by the principles of Islam that they espouse. The fact is that they both fail miserably.

Talking about the syedna, about whom we need to bother, What is Islamic about:
1. "Sajda Tujhe wajib hai"?
2. Selling masalla space in a masjid?
3. The compulsion about his pictures in all bohra houses and now masjids?
4. Charging the people to eat in their houses (ziafat)?

This list can go on.

Trying to project the syedna as a paragon of virtue by contrasting him with the aga khan is inappropriate and in a way dishonest.

[incredible]

Why compare the syedna with the aga khan?

Both should be judged by the principles of Islam that they espouse. The fact is that they both fail miserably.

Talking about the syedna, about whom we need to bother, What is Islamic about:
1. "Sajda Tujhe wajib hai"?
2. Selling masalla space in a masjid?
3. The compulsion about his pictures in all bohra houses and now masjids?
4. Charging the people to eat in their houses (ziafat)?

This list can go on.

Trying to project the syedna as a paragon of virtue by contrasting him with the aga khan is inappropriate and in a way dishonest.

1.it is not compulsory for bohri to sing sajda tujhe wajib hain(i dont sing either)

2.masallah space is charged to keep uniformity in mosque and to keep it free from fights.

3.it is not obligatory and no one asked to keep his pic in houses.(individual free will)

4.none asked to invite him or pay money for his ziyafat.(individual free will)

while kafir agha khan is openly defaming islaam and ismailism by his actions.

[Smart]

Oh well, so if it is free will, and is against Islam, why does the syedna not stop it? Would you say the same about free will, if somebody were to start drinking alcohol? The free will sounds hypocritical.

[guy_sam2005]

incredible,
Bhai who has given you the rights to compare syedna wit anyone....maybe for u it might be a race..but there is no competetion to jannat.....Moula(tus)cant be compared with anyone...You are not even a bohra,and if u claim u are go and give misaq again and listen to it carefully........if u are really interested in reforms in comunity this is not the place..i told u before i am reminding u again...this forum has nothing todo with dawoodi bohrsa(followers of islam as preached by syednatus).............ad if u dont get that point its clear that u are 1 of them only...

[Muslim First]

Incredible

we bohra follow quraan and sunnah of muhammed(saw) in every possible way

What are you smoking?

[Muslim First]

Salim Bhai

You still owe translation of Aga Khani Shahada

Don't disappear

[Regal]

Moula(tus)cant be compared with anyone

is it because he is more than a human being ? should be nothing wrong with comparing the lifestyles of two spiritual leaders of similar beliefs.



Although Prince Karim Aga Khan and his predecessor before him brought in many unislamic practices, they also built alot of state-of-the-art hospitals and infrastructure. Isnt that the same argument abde's use to further Syedna's cause??

[incredible]

incredible,
Bhai who has given you the rights to compare syedna wit anyone....maybe for u it might be a race..but there is no competetion to jannat.....Moula(tus)cant be compared with anyone...You are not even a bohra,and if u claim u are go and give misaq again and listen to it carefully........if u are really interested in reforms in comunity this is not the place..i told u before i am reminding u again...this forum has nothing todo with dawoodi bohrsa(followers of islam as preached by syednatus).............ad if u dont get that point its clear that u are 1 of them only...

yes true this is the first time i agree with you...there is no race to jannat and no one owns it, so better deal islaam seriously and the way it shud be dealt before u find ur self in pit of hell.

regarding second point...i agree with u again that dai cant be compare with any one yet i find every single line of amil which compares dai either with Imam or rasullullah (saw).so u must stop ur local amil from comparing dai with any of this personalities.

yes true i am not a trader i am yet a student, and i belive in more being a momeen then be a bohra.

[canadian]

Bro. Incredible said:
"wah bhai wah hazar imam with such qualities.i am sure rasullulah,imam Ali and Hussain would have beheaded such ****""

So Rasullulah, Ali, et al were intolerant and cruel? BTW what sort of Islam are you all talking about? Sufi, Salafi, Wahabi, Ithnasheri Shia, Dawoodi Bohra, Alavi Bohra, Druze shia?
Which is true Islam? Most of us find faults with others' interpretation of the religion. Instead, if we looked at ourselves, may be we shall become more tolerant and kinder.

[salim]

isnt ur imam owns horses and bet on them?

Incredible - Imam do not bet on horses. Imam do own horses and his horses do run races like prophet Muhammad use to do. It is Sunna of Rasul to raise horses.


*****Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 92, Number 436:

Narrated Nafi:

Abdullah said, "The Prophet arranged for a horse race, and the prepared
horses were given less food for a few days before the race to win the race,
and were allowed to run from Al-Hafya to Thaniyat-al-Wada', and the
unprepared horses were allowed to run between Thaniyat-al-Wada' and the
mosque of Bani Zuraiq," 'Abdullah was one of those who participated in the
race

*****Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 837:

Narrated Ibn Umar:

Allah's Apostle said, "There is always goodness in horses till the Day of
Resurrection. "


*****Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 8, Number 412:

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:

Allah's Apostle ordered for a horse race; the trained horses were to run
from
a place called Al-Hafya' to Thaniyat Al-Wada' and the horses which were not
trained were to run from Al-Thaniya to the Masjid (mosque of) Bani Zuraiq.


The sub narrator added: Ibn Umar was one of those who took part in the race.


*****Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 120:

Narrated ('Abdullah) bin 'Umar:

The Prophet arranged for a horse race amongst the horses that had been made
lean to take place between Al-Hafya'' and Thaniyat Al-Wada' (i.e. names of
two places) and the horses which had not been made lean from Ath-Thaniyat to
the mosque of Bani Zuraiq.

I was also amongst those who took part in that horse race. Sufyan, a
sub-narrator, said, "The distance between Al-Hafya and Thaniya Al-Wada' is
five or six miles; and between Thaniya and the mosque of Bani Zuraiq is one
mile."


*****Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 121:

Narrated Abdullah:

The Prophet arranged for a horse race of the horses which had not been made
lean; the area of the race was from Ath-Thaniya to the mosque of Bani
Zuraiq.
The sub-narrator said, "'Abdullah bin 'Umar was amongst those who
participated in that horse race."


*****Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 122:

Narrated Abu Ishaq from Musa bin 'Uqba from Mafia from Ibn 'Umar who said:


"Allah's Apostle arranged a horse race amongst the horses that had been made
lean, letting them start from Al-Hafya' and their limit (distance of
running)
was up to Thaniyat-al-Wada'. I asked Musa, 'What was the distance between
the
two places?' Musa replied, 'Six or seven miles. He arranged a race of the
horses which had not been made lean sending them from Thaniyat-al-Wada', and
their limit was up to the mosque of Bani Zuraiq.'

I asked, 'What was the distance between those two places?' He replied 'One
mile or so.' Ibn 'Umar was amongst those who participated in that horse
race."

[salim]

Incredible -

Most of the pictures you are showing are edited photo shop pictures. I have seen very similar pictures of prophet Muhammad and prophet Muhammad is not even live now. Nauzubillah.

In this age almost all big Personalities have these kind of fake photos.

[salim]

Incredible -

Nizari's and Bohras are a little difference when it comes to how they follow their leaders. Nizari's just follow Aga khan, we are not worried about his relatives, they are not our leaders.

Bohra's do follow syedna and all the relatives of syedna which they call shaizadas. Most of the ismailis would not even know the names of 1st and 2nd cousins of Aga khan. If they are ismailis they are no more than a regular ismaili. They do not get any special attention.

Even daughter and sons of Aga khan do not get too much of special attention. They are respected but not seen as authoritative leaders of the community. At least nowhere close shaizadas.

[salim]

I don't want to play the game of blaming the community leaders relatives, you can search this website and find out yourself how good Shaizadas are.

[salim]

guy_sam2005, I agree with you that we should not compare, at least in wrong sense and with fake proofs.

At least let's not judge anyones faith.

The Qur'an anticipates the fact that there will be a plurality of religious communities on the earth, and that this diversity is part of God's divine plan.

"Unto every one of you have We appointed a [different] law and way of life. And if God had so willed, He could surely have made you all one single community: but [He willed it otherwise] in order to test you by means of what He has vouchsafed unto you ..." [Qur'an 5:48]

"O people! Behold, we have created you from a male and a female and have made you into nations and tribes to that you might come to know one another." Qur'an 49:13

Nizari's are very diverse community. I think this diversity and pluralism made us a progressive muslims community.

[incredible]

@salim...


you didnt replied on what authority your imam nullifies namaaz and other fard of islaam?

[salim]

incredible

you didnt replied on what authority your imam nullifies namaaz and other fard of islaam?

The questions is very vague. I will try to explain you what I can. (I am assuming you are talking about ismailis of indian subcontinent)

Aga khan did not nullify namaaz. Rather he is trying to enforce it wherever he can. Majority of ismailis pray Namaz. Only a small minority of ismailis those who live in indian sub content pray Salat instead of namaz.

Ismaili Muslims of Indian sub content (who are a small minority of all nizari ismailis) were being prosecuted by fanatic muslims like Aurangzeb, Ghazni, etc. At that time to save their lives instead of converting to fanaticism, Ismailis of Indian subcontinent went close to Hinduism. This way they got protected by many Hindu kings. Something simillar to what Dawoodi Bohris did with Narender Modi.

Previous Aga khan replaced that Gujrathi prayers with Arabic salat which he did get a lot of opposition at that time. Change don't come in a day. Now current Aga khan is trying to enforce Namaz to Ismailis of indian sub-continent as well.

No where in quran it says what, how should one say salat.

Ismailis perform one prayer in the morning and two prayers in the evening. There is no single verse mentioning all of the five prayers.
24:58 mentions three of them - Fajr (dawn), Zohr (noon), and Ishaa (night).
11:114 also mentions three of the prayers - Fajr, Maghrib (sunset) and Ishaa.
[Hud 11:114] And establish regular prayers at the two ends of the day and at the approaches of the night: For those things, that are good remove those that are evil: Be that the word of remembrance to those who remember (their Lord)

[bani Isra'il 17:78] Keep up prayer from the declining of the sun till the darkness of the night and the morning recitation; surely the morning recitation is witnessed.

[an-Nur 24:58] O ye who believe! let those whom your right hands possess, and the (children) among you who have not come of age ask your permission (before they come to your presence), on three occasions: before morning prayer; the while ye doff your clothes for the noonday heat; and after the late-night prayer: these are your three times of undress: outside those times it is not wrong for you or for them to move about attending to each other: Thus does God make clear the Signs to you: for God is full of knowledge and wisdom.

[al-Baqarah 2:238] Guard strictly your (habit of) prayers, especially the Middle Prayer; and stand before God in a devout (frame of mind).
Sura 24 v 36 "(Lit is such a Light)
In houses, which God Hath permitted to be raised To Honour; for the celebration, In them, of His name:In them is He glorified In the mornings and In the evenings,

We ismailis believe that to save the lives of ismailis, Dai of that time guided them to remember Allah in the form that they use to understand (as hindu convert). Ismailis of indian sub continent pray Salat 3 times a day. This salat is comination of Quran Ayats, Hadiths, and prayers. They remeber Allah as per quran.

Amongst the sunnis there are between 200-300 differences in just their salat alone. Shias pray different namaz. In shia itself there are many different ways to pray namaz. Sufi add dhiker. So which namaz is true namaz?

Namaz is the Pillar is ismaili islam. And now all the ismailis will be reciting same namaz soon including ismailis of indian subcontinent.


Now I can ask you the same questions, which many have asked on this form -

"With what authority your Dai promotes shirk namaaz and nullifies other fard of islam and why is he promoting and making it bidats (innovations) compulsory"

You will tell me that I don't understand Dawoodi Bohras and you believe in Dai because your heart tells you that he is right and you have proof of it from Quran and Hadith. And you will tell me that - I need to let Allah Judge the faith of others and not indulge in mudslinging as allah says in quran.

Now the same applies to you. You don't have to answer the above question. I just asked it, so that you will understand that there are as many ways to GOD as human beings. And Muslims should stop killing each other in the name of Islam. My interpretation of Islam may not be same as yours but that does not make your interpretation less right.

"Unto every one of you have We appointed a [different] law and way of life. And if God had so willed, He could surely have made you all one single community: but [He willed it otherwise] in order to test you by means of what He has vouchsafed unto you ..." [Qur'an 5:48]

[incredible]

@salim

do aghakhanis belives in DAI? i mean do ur imam has any dai?

so u belive that imam mehdi(as) or imam tayyeb(as) went in pardah and agha khan re appeared as an imam?

[Muslim First]

a small minority of ismailis those who live in indian sub content pray Salat instead of namaz.

Salim Bhai

Namaaz is persian word for Salaat. Do not fool us. Ismaili call their prayers Dua,

Salim your post is full of misinformation.

Incredible

move this thread to islam. It does not belong here

[Muslim First]

So which namaz is true namaz?

Do reserch and try to fighure out hoe Propher SAW prayed.

Google Prophet's prayers

[Muslim First]

Salim Bhai
Here are 5 Prayers in Qur'an

Prayers in Qur'an
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... f=2&t=3125

by porus on Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:36 am

(30:17) EXTOL, then, God’s limitless glory when you enter upon the evening hours, and when you rise at morn

These are fajr prayer and magharib prayer.

(30:18) and [seeing that] unto Him is due all praise in the heavens and on earth, [glorify Him] in the afternoon as well, and when you enter upon the hour of noon.

This is asr prayer and zuhr prayer

(11:114) And be constant in praying at the beginning and the end of the day, as well as during the early watches of the night.

These are fajr, magharib, and isha prayers

So, these are the five prayers as interpreted by the majority of the Muslim Ulama. It is also in line with teaching of Daa'imul Islam, whose primary authority is the Quran as interpreted by Imam Jafar al-Sadiq and earlier Imams.

The above Quran quotes are Muhammad Asad translations.

The following is from Maududi's Tafheemul Quran:

(1) The Dawn Prayer (Fajr in Arabic) given in 11:114, 24:58
(2) The Noon Prayer (Zuher in Arabic) , given in 17:78 and 30:18
(3) The Afternoon Prayer (Asr in Arabic), given in 2:238
(4) The sunset Prayer (Maghrib in Arabic), given in 11:114
(5) The Night Prayer (Isha in Arabic), given in 24:58

Reading Arabic Quran, I agree with Maududi.

[Maqbool]

If you compare Sayedna vs Agakhan on the basis of humanitarian basis there are a lot.

Sayedna on the name of religion extract lots of money from his follower. He tells his followers to build masjids, so that he collect a hefty sums for inauguration, by way of inauguration salam and thereafter jiafat salam. He tells his followers to take minnat of a fictitious saheb and extracts lots of money on najrulmukam. Even then he knows that the minnats are to fulfill once wises, he insists to take minnat in the case where it will not be full field in any case!! The recent episode of minnat for Asura waez is an example. He collects money for Zari of Fatemat ma well knowing that this is not possible in the years to come. His family and extended family all are not doing any business and leaving in a style of Raja Maharaja. Every sahzada and their sons or daughters are collecting hefty salams when ever they get opportunity and projecting themselves as ruhani as Sayedna.

Where as Agakan is doing his business and is not dependent on his follower. As Salim mentioned his sons and daughters are not part of the religious heads. Lots of educational institutions and medical facilities are promoted by Agakhan and he is famous as philanthropist all over the world.

Sayedna has not built any institution for the public welfare but has taken all the charges from the persons of the community and projected as if he has made. The Saifee hospital and Burhani Collage are a few example of this atrocities. He also not allows any philanthropist from the community to give donations or build any institutions directly. He always insists to do it in his name only and must be managed by his appointees.

The Agakhan is know all over the world and therefor the press of the world is lookout for any massala every time. Who know Sayena if you consider all the world? He is know only in India and Pakistan that also in some places.

Now the basic difference is, The Agakhan is a direct decedent of Ali (A.S.) where as Sayedna is a decedent of a Brahmin who is converted to Bohra.

[salim]

Brother Incredible

Dai is a person who do dawah or help imam with his actives. There is always one Imam and under that imam there are many Dais.

After the death of Fatimid Imam Khalif Mustansir Billah two sons of Imam claimed themselves to be Imam. Those who followed Nizar as imam are know as Nizaris, one of the group that followed Musteali as Imam are know as Dawoodi Bohras.

Nizari Imams never went behind parda. There was a period in Nizari history when Imam was hidden from non-ismailis but in contact with ismailis. Nizari believe that Imam never goes in Parda or never goes to gaib. If there are two persons on this earth left, one will be imam.

In case of Dawoodi Bohras - few Imam's after Musteali came Imam Tayyeb, he went into parda and the head of all the dai - Dai-ul-Duat became the leader of the community. While the community prepars for the Imam to come Dai runs the community in place of Imam. So for Dawoodi Bohras the word Dai means much more than what Dai means for Nizaris or other shia sects.