14th All World Dawoodi Bohra Conference

[Admin]

Reformist Bohras are holding their 14th All World Conference in Udaipur from 11th to 13th February 2011. You all are invited. For details click this link: Conference details.

[incredible]

what is subject of this conferrence? if it is about hoping syedna to mend his way of dealing with momeenin then its just a waste of time money and efforts....

[aqs]

any reason why no conference was held for last couple of years.

The invitation says

All reformist sisters and brothers requested to attend the 14th All World Dawoodi Bohra Conference in Udaipur

so it means no main stream Bohras are invited and you people talk about reconciliation. Moula(tus) just invited you guys back on Yaume Ashura and see how you reciprocate

[S. Insaf]

Dear brother aqs,
The World Conference is regularly held once in every three year.
In the yearly years it was kept open for all but then it created a lot of law and order problems as the Bohras from otherside of the devide and paid goons were sent in the conference hall to disturb and ransack the conference. Even today the men are posted outside the Conference hall to keep a check on the Bohras from other side daring to attend.
You very well know it from the past history and still asking this question, I am surprised.

[S. Insaf]

Moula(tus) just invited you guys back on Yaume Ashura and see how you reciprocate

We are making two simple requests to Moula 1) to lift Baraat and 2) to stop further collections in the name of Wajebat and Sabil. But it seems he is interested in keeping us divided so that he can keep the loot uninterrupted.
He is compelled to take us back in his fold as he failed to break and crush us down inspite of the force and mojizas under his command.

[aqs]

Dear brother aqs,
The World Conference is regularly held once in every three year.
In the yearly years it was kept open for all but then it created a lot of law and order problems as the Bohras from otherside of the devide and paid goons were sent in the conference hall to disturb and ransack the conference. Even today the men are posted outside the Conference hall to keep a check on the Bohras from other side daring to attend.
You very well know it from the past history and still asking this question, I am surprised.

Insaaf Saheb,

You and i very well know who always starts or rather gathers public for protests, go to others areas, shouts slogans against Syedna(tus). you havent forgotten Galiyakot incident have you.

Yes i am very much surprised, because due to some untoward incident in the past for which both sides were responsible you have started having close door conferences, If its a secret conference then definitely its contents, agenda or minutes will not be published. isnt it

In the adv its mentioned that people coming for the conference should mention their arrival details to two individuals so that their accommodation can be taken care of, now i presume that it must be free of cost and the cost will be beared by either the org. or individual, how is it?

Moula(tus) just invited you guys back on Yaume Ashura and see how you reciprocate

We are making two simple requests to Moula 1) to lift Baraat and 2) to stop further collections in the name of Wajebat and Sabil. But it seems he is interested in keeping us divided so that he can keep the loot uninterrupted.
.

Baraat is already not in effect and wajebaat is group of taxes on which you have already written a lengthy post, so you very well know the main component of it is zakaat and others are just name sake.

What happened to your demand of repealing Misaaq, Iddat and few other demands.

He is compelled to take us back in his fold as he failed to break and crush us down inspite of the force and mojizas under his command

numbers speak for themselves, have a census and check with your numbers in 1972, you will have a moment of reckoning

[guy_sam2005]

Oh really,Why dont u send invited for some 5-10 representatives from the other side of fold..and give them a equal chance to speak and debate...u know if that happens 90% of the ppl who follow u will desert u on that very day...............

[Humsafar]

Aqs, reformist conferences are never held behind closed doors and there's nothing secretive about them. They are public events and are widely reported in the local and national media. You can find all the reports and resolutions of the past conferences on this site. This is the report from the 2008 conference: http://dawoodi-bohras.com/news/143/66/C ... --a-report. Reports about previous conferences are here: http://dawoodi-bohras.com/events/, scroll to the bottom of the page.

Regarding the reformist population, I've said so many times before, yes it has gone down and why it has gone down has been discussed umpteen times here. Apart from the famous Bohra funk and "suu karsoo", the primary reason is this: http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... 510#p73510.

As for the costs of accommodation and such, I believe it is borne by the participating organisations and also funded by donations.

Guy-Sam, reformists have had a number of dialogues with the "other side", one such is here: http://dawoodi-bohras.com/reform_issues/multimedia/ Listen to the one entitled "A dialogue with orthodox Bohars". In any case, on behalf of reformists I cordially invite you and Aqs and other abdes on this forum to come join us in the conference and present your point of view. If you're seriously interested pls send me a pm and I'll let the organisers know. Also, I would request you to extend us the same favour and allow us to present our point of view at your gatherings. We alreadly allow you to express your point of view on our website, but have no such access on your sites. So demanding representation for the "other side" is rather rich. The talk about "90% of the ppl who follow u will desert u on that very day" is a silly boast. You guys have not been able to sway a single refromist on this forum in all these years. So there!

[bohra_manus]

Dear brother aqs,
The World Conference is regularly held once in every three year.
In the yearly years it was kept open for all but then it created a lot of law and order problems as the Bohras from otherside of the devide and paid goons were sent in the conference hall to disturb and ransack the conference. Even today the men are posted outside the Conference hall to keep a check on the Bohras from other side daring to attend.
You very well know it from the past history and still asking this question, I am surprised.

Insaaf Saheb,

You and i very well know who always starts or rather gathers public for protests, go to others areas, shouts slogans against Syedna(tus). you havent forgotten Galiyakot incident have you.

Yes i am very much surprised, because due to some untoward incident in the past for which both sides were responsible you have started having close door conferences, If its a secret conference then definitely its contents, agenda or minutes will not be published. isnt it

In the adv its mentioned that people coming for the conference should mention their arrival details to two individuals so that their accommodation can be taken care of, now i presume that it must be free of cost and the cost will be beared by either the org. or individual, how is it?

We are making two simple requests to Moula 1) to lift Baraat and 2) to stop further collections in the name of Wajebat and Sabil. But it seems he is interested in keeping us divided so that he can keep the loot uninterrupted.
.

Baraat is already not in effect and wajebaat is group of taxes on which you have already written a lengthy post, so you very well know the main component of it is zakaat and others are just name sake.

What happened to your demand of repealing Misaaq, Iddat and few other demands.

He is compelled to take us back in his fold as he failed to break and crush us down inspite of the force and mojizas under his command

numbers speak for themselves, have a census and check with your numbers in 1972, you will have a moment of reckoning

Brother Aqs:
I object to the statement Baraat is already not in effect.
If I don't pay my sabeel (amount of which is imposed upon us without consulting us on expenses, amount increases disproportionately every year), I don't my wajebaat (amount is arbitrarily imposed), my raze is terminated, how is this different from Baraat?

[accountability]

Dear Aqs.

Humsafar has raised a very genuine point. it is always good to hear both views in any confrence. He has invited anyone from administration side to attend, it is a good gesture from reformist side. There is no harm in having an intellectual debate.
Though Humsafar has extended an invitation from reformist side, I dont think you would be able to reciporcate in zikra or other confrences. You would appreciate that we dont very much encourage intellectual debate. Questioning behaviour or practices even worldly ones are strictly forbidden let alone religious one.

Bohra manus has also made a valid argument. Excomminucation as a practice is literally not practiced, but same is prevelent in the name of dues. (sabil wajebat etc). If you dont pay sabil and wajebat you are good for nothing. You cannot bury your dead one, you can not have your children married or any religious activity including darees majlis etc. It is high time that some fundamental change in practice is allowed. One more thing administration should also stop belittling human beings. 70 years old people hands folded almost in prostration before teen aged grand sons of syedna saheb. This should also stop. it has nothing to do with religion. But it makes bohras dehumanized.

[Maqbool]

Smart has extended an invitation and to reciprocated the one of the sahazada should attend this conference and find out why they are not in the fold of dawat.

Insted of sayedna announcing in the vaez where the reformist are not present he should send a representative and give offer to come back.

I feel that sayedna should first concentrate on the mumenins who are in his fold, but are not happy because of the dadagiri and heavy corruption in the jamats. He should insists on the accountability of all jamats before he first presents the accounts of vajebat. If this action is taken, automatically reformist will come back

[guy_sam2005]

Bro humsafar,
Thanks for your invite,but i am not the right person to be there n moreover i am ortho i'd need raza to attend anyways.
Send an invite to saifi mahal...hope they send someone who can make things happen,
Maqbool,
Huzurala(tus) is doin what has to be done...u dont have to teach him...look at u u aint a follower but u want the leader to follow u....

[Humsafar]

guy_sam, of course you'd need raza, and you'd never get it. We've sent invites and letters to the Sayedna many times in the past but never received a reply. But you know what, let this be an open invitation to Saifee Mahal - please send your representative to the conference and let's have a public dialogue, without any pre-conditions. Let's sit together and discuss our issues in a public forum. Let the world know that the Sayedna is willing to listen and talk. Is there anyone in Saifee Mahal or anyone with raza willing to do that? The sayedna's bland, off-hand appeal to reformists to come back does not cut it. That appeal must come with a willingness to listen and talk. Without dialogue we can't move forward.

[Maqbool]

Huzurala(tus) is doin what has to be done...u dont have to teach him...look at u u aint a follower but u want the leader to follow u....

What a logic !!!

He, just for eyewash tells prog. to return to the fold without showing any change of his atrocities towards the followers and no one should tell him of his wrong doing.

He must find out first that how his follower is suffering by his policies and then he can go invite others. He is so adamant that those who left him due to some reason should come back at his condition. If he is that honest he should try to get back them with honor and should see that the mistake committed by him and his sahzadas should not be committed again, Till then what ever appeal is made is only to hoodwink the abdes and nothing else.

[incredible]

actually his appeal for progs to come back is just coz of peel presure from the relatives of those who left main fold...he just wanna show

"joyu apnaa mola ye to sagla ne paccha bolaya pun e logo ne awwuj nathi"

[S. Insaf]

The Mumineen of Udaipur were so devoted and so full of love and affection for Dai (khamma Moula) and Dawat that late Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb had called Udaipur his Medina.
As I have said earlier it is for us to ponder over why and how the preset Syedna playing in the hands of his late brother Yusuf Najmuddin and son Quid Johar converted Medina in to the battle field of Karbala and brought shame on the entire community?
Material prosperity tends to erode character, values and behaviour. Arrogance and ego grow along with growth in income especially if income is coming from easy sources. The more one earns and more comforts one acquires, greedier one becomes. As Hazrat Ali had said in refrence to Moaviyah "he becomes a curse on his subjects".

[seeker110]

Wasn't Kothar looking for Bohras with Law Degrees.Were there any takers.Maybe they can send someone to defend their atrocities.Too bad the ones on forum are closer to high school drop-outs.

[aqs]

Aqs, reformist conferences are never held behind closed doors and there's nothing secretive about them. They are public events and are widely reported in the local and national media. You can find all the reports and resolutions of the past conferences on this site. This is the report from the 2008 conference: http://dawoodi-bohras.com/news/143/66/C ... --a-report. Reports about previous conferences are here: http://dawoodi-bohras.com/events/, scroll to the bottom of the page.

Humsafar,
this is what Insaaf saheb posted

Even today the men are posted outside the Conference hall to keep a check on the Bohras from other side daring to attend

I have gone through the reports posted but every three year you pass on the same resolution without delving into why were last targets not achieved, or this section is not printed

Regarding the reformist population, I've said so many times before, yes it has gone down and why it has gone down has been discussed umpteen times here. Apart from the famous Bohra funk and "suu karsoo", the primary reason is this: http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... 510#p73510.

should i respond with "Your are in denial" as you do.

there is only one reason why people didn't join you and that is total religious hollowness in your movement, it was a revolt for administrative issues and people are attached to Syedna(tus) on religious level in such a way that all such anomalies are discarded, Progs did try to bridge this gap by taking Ahmed Raaj in but he was always at loggerheads with your Leader AA Engineer. Ahmed Raaj was a product of Jamea and whole life had done things with raza so it took him quite some time to perform religious activities without raza as he knew the hashr of Jafar who did the same.

As for the costs of accommodation and such, I believe it is borne by the participating organisations and also funded by donations.

the same goes for Ashara and zikra where people are taken care by participating organisations

Guy-Sam, reformists have had a number of dialogues with the "other side", one such is here: http://dawoodi-bohras.com/reform_issues/multimedia/ Listen to the one entitled "A dialogue with orthodox Bohars". In any case, on behalf of reformists I cordially invite you and Aqs and other abdes on this forum to come join us in the conference and present your point of view. If you're seriously interested pls send me a pm and I'll let the organisers know. Also, I would request you to extend us the same favour and allow us to present our point of view at your gatherings. We alreadly allow you to express your point of view on our website, but have no such access on your sites. So demanding representation for the "other side" is rather rich. The talk about "90% of the ppl who follow u will desert u on that very day" is a silly boast. You guys have not been able to sway a single refromist on this forum in all these years. So there!

thanks for the invite, i would really have liked to come and attend the conference but due to physical distance as i am out of country i will not be able to attend, Inshallah whenever i visit Udaipur next time i will visit you and others from this forum. due to some technical issue i suppose multimedia is not opening for me which you have mentioned.

I am in no way associated with kothar, my coming to this site and views are my own so i cant influence kothar to give you the platform to speak, but you can post some open letters in print media and it might have some effect

[aqs]

Brother Aqs:
I object to the statement Baraat is already not in effect.
If I don't pay my sabeel (amount of which is imposed upon us without consulting us on expenses, amount increases disproportionately every year), I don't my wajebaat (amount is arbitrarily imposed), my raze is terminated, how is this different from Baraat?

Br, BM

If you take a stand then maximum Aamil will tell that he will not accept your wajebaat and will tell you to either go to Mumbai to deposit or will just accept your sila fitra, go next year and in all probability he will accept, arm twisting methods are gradually discarded off.

I dont think they will close your raza for non payements, Oma Bhai is just a sabeel paying member and his raza is entact

[aqs]

Dear Aqs.

Humsafar has raised a very genuine point. it is always good to hear both views in any confrence. He has invited anyone from administration side to attend, it is a good gesture from reformist side. There is no harm in having an intellectual debate.
Though Humsafar has extended an invitation from reformist side, I dont think you would be able to reciporcate in zikra or other confrences. You would appreciate that we dont very much encourage intellectual debate. Questioning behaviour or practices even worldly ones are strictly forbidden let alone religious one.

Bohra manus has also made a valid argument. Excomminucation as a practice is literally not practiced, but same is prevelent in the name of dues. (sabil wajebat etc). If you dont pay sabil and wajebat you are good for nothing. You cannot bury your dead one, you can not have your children married or any religious activity including darees majlis etc. It is high time that some fundamental change in practice is allowed. One more thing administration should also stop belittling human beings. 70 years old people hands folded almost in prostration before teen aged grand sons of syedna saheb. This should also stop. it has nothing to do with religion. But it makes bohras dehumanized.

agreed but things are changing for better, Aqa Moula(tus) has invited people to come back to the fold two times this year, one on Laylatul Qadr another on Ashura day. one was relayed live and another was made available as a audio cliping so i think Kothar is serious enough for talks. Progs should show a willingness and send some group of people for talks, both should lower their guard for things to move forward, their should be no preconceived notions and we can see some changes.

[profastian]

actually his appeal for progs to come back is just coz of peel presure from the relatives of those who left main fold...he just wanna show

"joyu apnaa mola ye to sagla ne paccha bolaya pun e logo ne awwuj nathi"

When DAI does DAWAT(invites people to the fold), his dawat is never invain. Imam Hussain did something similar in Karbala. Did he not know that none of the Yazeedis would join him. He knew that Hur would answer, and he did. The ones that joined the fold due to the bayan of Syedna, have joined. People like Insap and incredible were never intended to be addressed in the bayan.

Even if you want to think about it logically. Why would he want a few thousand of you under his fold. You are no threat to him, nor do you people have any financial clout(as you claim he desires financial gains). He delivered the paigam because he is a DAI and one of the foremost duties of the dai is DAWAT.

[incredible]

actually his appeal for progs to come back is just coz of peel presure from the relatives of those who left main fold...he just wanna show

"joyu apnaa mola ye to sagla ne paccha bolaya pun e logo ne awwuj nathi"

When DAI does DAWAT(invites people to the fold), his dawat is never invain. Imam Hussain did something similar in Karbala. Did he not know that none of the Yazeedis would join him. He knew that Hur would answer, and he did. The ones that joined the fold due to the bayan of Syedna, have joined. People like Insap and incredible were never intended to be addressed in the bayan.

Even if you want to think about it logically. Why would he want a few thousand of you under his fold. You are no threat to him, nor do you people have any financial clout(as you claim he desires financial gains). He delivered the paigam because he is a DAI and one of the foremost duties of the dai is DAWAT.

very correct one of foremost duty of DAI is to do dawat,so now tell me where and when did he done any dawat to open public? did he organized any open seminar to invite people to islaam? did he challenged any islamic scholar or scholar of any other sect to show them the light of islaam?

first kicking people out of dawat and realizing mistake again inviting them to dawat is not dawah its just a unsaid appolize which he is not ready to accept.

comparing dawat of Imam hussain with dai just shows how much u are brain washed.

[aqs]

Incredibe,
no one was kicked out they went on their own, and as profastian has replied that it really does not matter in financial terms or for numbers sake if reformists come back to the fold, they hardly number around a couple of thousand.

[incredible]

He delivered the paigam because he is a DAI and one of the foremost duties of the dai is DAWAT.

I remember how big protest was held when there was some tention between Ali asger engineer and syedna,also when NDTV published syedna pics by mistake with a terrorist.

but i wonder there was no protest noticed when zakir naik openly praised yazid and said battle of karbala was just political,there was no protest when israr ahmed said ayat in quraan about alcohol was revealed coz Ali been drunked and lead namaz(nauzobillah)

so i wonder what kind of dawaat is this dai operating,dawat for him self or dawat of islaam and ahlul bayt?

[Hussain_KSA]

He delivered the paigam because he is a DAI and one of the foremost duties of the dai is DAWAT.

I there was no protest when israr ahmed said ayat in quraan about alcohol was revealed coz Ali been drunked and lead namaz(nauzobillah)

?

Could you please give some proof about Dr. Israr Ahmed. I met Dr. Israr Ahmed several times but never come across such things. Secondly he was the only person behind celeberating Ali Day in Pakistan.

[incredible]

anajmi knows about it...and u can also google

here is a refute to israr ahmed claim by shia ulema...check the 19 lecture

http://sayedammar.com/popramadhan2008s.html#

[incredible]

btw he is already dead...

A famous Islamic Scholar and the founder of Tanzeem e Islami Dr. Israr Ahmed died on the 14th of April 2010.Dr. Israr Ahmed died because of a heart attack earlier this morning. He was bon on the twenty six of April 1932.

[ghulam muhammed]

I think he is the same Israr Ahmed who used to appear on Zakir Naik's Peace TV Channel.

[S. Insaf]

The Dawoodi Bohra reformists are going to organize World Dawoodi Bohra Conference in Udaipur from 11 to 13 Feb. 2011. This will be the 14th World Conference. Even after 34 years in our community still question is raised “Why Conference?”
It is because of late there is no culture of discussion in Dawoodi Bohra Community which has no constitution and role to play in the decision-making process. All decisions are taken by few selective overlords keeping their own interests in mind and imposed on the community that has to obey them without raising any question.
The purpose of Meetings, Assemblies, Seminars and Conferences is to gather concerned people at one place, focus each time on some particular subject, seek guidance of experts and experienced persons and then engage all the participants in open discussion, in favour or against and arrive at the future course of action to achieve that specific goal by mutual consultation. Conferences and Seminars are possible only in a society or group which has a culture of discussion and which enshrines the freedom of expression in a democratic way.
In the Dawoodi Bohra history the first recoded Conference was held at Dhoraji at the instance of Sir Adamji Peerbhoy, during 49th Dai, Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin’s regime. The Conference was held on 9th March 1899. A Dastur-al amal (constitution) was drawn up and Amils were asked to remit part of their collection towards the center (till then entire amount collected by the local Jamats and Amils was retained by them and the center was poor and indebted so much that Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin Saheb had to take loans on interest from two Hindu Mahajans and from his Amil Shaikh Abdul Tayyeb. It so happened that 49th Dai could not pay back the loan on interest taken by him. On non-payment of loan his said Amil filed a suit against him and the Amil tried to put the Dai in Jail. Sir Adamji had rescued the Dai and then this Conference was held. 49th Dai’s son, Taher Saifuddin when became a Dai misused the good-will of Sir Adamji. He gradually monopolized all powers in his hands completely throttling the freedom of Jamat and Mumineen. This Conference was chaired by Syedna Burhanuddin Saheb.
The second Conference was organized in 1944 in Bombay, during Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb’s time. It was an Educational Conference for discussing the ways and means to spread modern education in the Dawoodi Bohra Community, as Taher Saifuddin Saheb opposed the modern education.
Prominent reformists, Ebrahimji Sir Adamji Peerbhoy, Sir Yusuf Ali Alibhay Karimjee, Tayyebali Koicha, Hatim Alvi, Taherbhai Kinkhabwala and Imran Ali Vakil were the torch-bearers of Modern Education among Bohras.
Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb greatly opposed this conference. He even also mobilized an armed mob of fanatics to physically attack the Conference organizers and ransack Sunderbai Hall.

The reformist Dawoodi Bohras organized their first World Conference in Udaipur in 1977 after the mass revolt there.
The Syedna Saheb’s Sajda-guzar Bohras were not aware of the impact of this Conference but he was fully aware of the consequences and the impact of this Conference on his establishment and on the Bohra community. He along with his younger brother and political advisor, Yusuf Najmuddin therefore used all the might and political favour at their command to either ban the conference or disturb it. From the chief Minister of Rajasthan to the Prime Minister in Delhi, from inciting the stall of Jamiyah to creating hysteria in the community labeling reformists as “enemies of religion”, they geared up their entire machinery to sabotage the Conference. They tried there best to take advantage of the Emergency imposed in the country to get the Conference banned under pretext of hurting the religious sentiments of section of minority.
In order not to make their opposition obvious they planned a miracle (Mojiza) of blood oozing out from the wall of the mausoleum of Syedi Fakhruddin Shaheed and collected more than 15000 fanatics at Galiakot, 40 km from Udaipur. Syedna Burhanuddin Saheb himself reached there along with his Royal troop.
The Conference after Conference was held inspite of all opposition from Almighty Sayedna. And as feared by Syedna Saheb the Conferences had their effects on his establishment as well on the community.
The barbaric practices of dark ages prevailing inside the close walls of the community came in the notice of world outside. All over the world the intellectuals, social activist, human rights organizations, writers, poets media-men became sympathetic to the reformists’ cause, first two commissions of inquiry were constituted and then based on their reports a review-petition was filed in the Supreme Court of India against ex-communication. Arbitrary agreements carried out between Syedna Saheb’s representatives and corrupt elements in Waqf boards and Charity Commissioner’s office. Resentments all over the community started surfacing. The tyrant Yusuf Najmuddin died a terrible death in Cairo and no body bothered to bring his dead body back to India.
The progressive Dawoodi Bohra Website and its ever increasing participants from both sides of the divide is a positive outcome these Conferences. The earlier militancy of Syedna’s establishment has gone by wind.
The arrogance that had denied the apology of leaders of reform from Udaipur who went to Rampura in April 1973 to meet Syedna Saheb, has come down to its feet. Syedna traveled in every corner of the world bagging Reformists to come back to the fold without any apology.
The Bohras’ madness and frenzy that is witnessed today is an eyewash. The history had witnessed the same sort of joy and frenzy when the tyrants had destroyed the house of the Prophet of Islam in Karbala and Ahle-bayt were watching helplessly.
Drastic changes are in their way, just wait and watch.

[leila]

Drastic changes are in their way, just wait and watch.

true...but progs wont get any benefit from them.