Not Allowed...to understand the Holy Quran?

[blackstallion]

Why Bohras are allowed to recite the Quran in Arabic although they advocated it regularly, but are not allowed to understand a word of it.
Bohras probably recite more Quran, than any other community in Islam, but unfortunately, they do not follow the commandments, simply because do not understand it, nor are they allowed to understand it. Why?

[Conscíous]

Because they are a bunch of ignorant human worshippers

[candela]

I think some Bohris would say that they are encouraged to uncover the meaning of the Qur'an, though I would say in practice, this encouragement from the syedna is minimal... if he encourages his followers to learn the meaning of the Qur'an rarely, then he implores his followers to learn the meaning of the Qur'an virtually not at all (but I only conjecture... others can confirm this). The Bohris might say the doors of knowledge are open to them, but that they should only learn the Qur'an from those with knowledge, i.e. the amils or mulasahebs or whatnot. Thus there are barriers of effort and financial barriers to overcome to become well-versed in the Qur'an (and well-versed probably means that you've accepted any interpretation of the Qur'an that denies the contradictions between the Bohri ways and what the Qur'an says). I think the Kothar would rather have it that these barriers were there... but it'd be better if the Kothar spoke for itself. Haha... will I live to see the day...

[londonwala]

Candela is right. The establishment only want Bohras to know their hidden version of the meaning of the Quran. Listen to waaz and sabaqs. Often they will take an ayat or surat, go through it in detail, and give its “real” meaning. The “real” meaning is very far from the literal meaning, as understood by normal Arabic speaking scholars. Knowledge of Arabic for bohras is therefore not necessary because bohras can only learn the “real” meaning from their masters. The “real” meaning will often relate to the dai in order to try to convince us that the Quran predicted the dawat of today and the “greatness” of the dais.

[feelgud]

It is easy to understand Qura'n,Allah says repeatedly ;

Al-Qamar [54:40]
وَلَقَدْ يَسَّرْنَا الْقُرْآنَ لِلذِّكْرِ فَهَلْ مِن مُّدَّكِرٍ
Walaqad yassarna alqurana lilththikri fahal min muddakirin
54:40 And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?

Al-Qamar [54:17]
وَلَقَدْ يَسَّرْنَا الْقُرْآنَ لِلذِّكْرِ فَهَلْ مِن مُّدَّكِرٍ

Walaqad yassarna alqurana lilththikri fahal min muddakirin
54:17 And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?

Al-Qamar [54:22]
وَلَقَدْ يَسَّرْنَا الْقُرْآنَ لِلذِّكْرِ فَهَلْ مِن مُّدَّكِرٍ

Walaqad yassarna alqurana lilththikri fahal min muddakirin
54:22 But We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?

Al-Qamar [54:32]
وَلَقَدْ يَسَّرْنَا الْقُرْآنَ لِلذِّكْرِ فَهَلْ مِن مُّدَّكِرٍ

Walaqad yassarna alqurana lilththikri fahal min muddakirin
54:32 And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?

[candela]

Assalaamu alaikum everyone,

I was browsing some of the postings of the past and came across very well-said and relevant thoughts, so I wish to repost them here (from http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=322):

And I could go on and on and on, giving evidence after evidence from the Quran itself that this Book is easy to understand, that there is no crookedness in it, that there are no double meanings to it, that it is direct, that it is perfectly clear, AND THAT IT IS A MESSAGE FROM THE LORD OF THE WORLDS!!!! <p> <p>The Glorious Quran is used by the Bohras as a Book of ‘Baraka’ and ‘Shifa’, but not as a Book which guides mankind to Islam. Tens of millions of people worldwide have embraced Islam, just after reading this Glorious Quran, but the Bohras are not allowed by their leadership to understand it!! There are many eminent ‘scholars’ in the community who have memorized the whole Quran, but do not understand even one aayah!! They keep multiple copies in each house, and recite and recite, but are not allowed to understand the clear meanings of the Glorious Quran!! They have an university of Islamic studies only for the Bohras, but the Quran and its interpretation is not even taught. Thus the scholars who come out of there are ignorant of the guidance of the Glorious Quran, but are experts at Tajweed, Recitation, Memorization, Fiqh, Da’aim ul Islam, etc. But they have never ever understood the whole Quran in its context, even once!!<p> <p>I know several non-muslims who read and understood the Glorious Quran, once, and convert to Islam. I have heard and read of several others who have read and understood the Holy Quran and converted to Islam!! But for some reason, which the leadership knows best, Bohras are not allowed to understand the Quran. <p> <p>They say an aayah has 10 meanings each, and if you read it, you will mis-understand! They say the Quran is only supposed to be understood by their leadership, and not the common fools like us! They say that if you read and understand the Holy Quran, you might leave the fold of Islam! They say that the Quran must be understood only in Arabic and not in any other language! They say learn the Quran from the leadership, but they never teach the Quran themselves in any of their classes! They don’t even have a translation of their own, nor do they approve of an existing translation! And the most interesting part is, one of the most respected and authentic translations of the Glorious Quran, ever written in the English language, and accepted in all countries worldwide, was written by a Bohra himself … His name is Abdulla Yusuf Ali. He was excommunicated from the Bohra community because he was not given permission by the leadership to translate the Holy Quran, and he went ahead and did it anyway. He had the permission of the One who Created the heavens and the earth and everything in between! Today, literally tens of millions of Muslims read and study the Abdulla Yusuf Ali English translation of the Holy Quran all over the world!! Alhamdolillah<br>---<p>Best Regards,<br>Musalmaan

[aziz]

His name is Abdulla Yusuf Ali. He was excommunicated from the Bohra community because he was not given permission by the leadership to translate the Holy Quran, and he went ahead and did it anyway. He had the permission of the One who Created the heavens and the earth and everything in between!

where is the permission he had from the one who ....

[aziz]

(The Elephant) -
105:1


Sahih International
Have you not considered, [O Muhammad], how your Lord dealt with the companions of the elephant?
Yusuf Ali
Seest thou not how thy Lord dealt with the Companions of the Elephant?


105:2


Sahih International
Did He not make their plan into misguidance?
Yusuf Ali
Did He not make their treacherous plan go astray?


105:3


Sahih International
And He sent against them birds in flocks,
Yusuf Ali
And He sent against them Flights of Birds,

105:4


Sahih International
Striking them with stones of hard clay,
Yusuf Ali
Striking them with stones of baked clay.
105:5

Sahih International
And He made them like eaten straw.
Yusuf Ali
Then did He make them like an empty field of stalks and straw, (of which the corn) has been eaten up.




this is the translation of just one surat of the quran by two different people,one yusufali who had permision from one who created heavens and earth and sahih international who had permision from do not know who,but anybody can see the discrepancies between the two,what do we believe,on one hand we have yusufali (this dude had permision from allah himself) and the other sahih international who maybe had permision from allah also,,


plus a thought that why would allah not send the translated quran to mohamed sa knowing that people like us would come in the future,or why would the glorious quran contain a story about companions of elephant or maybe wife of abu lahab,
or why would allah swear on figs,olives or the asr time,maybe yusuali who had permision from allah acoording to progs can explain

[aziz]

show me one surat in whole of translated qurans where all the translaters have agreed on one translation,,
we have 1) sahih int 2)pickthall 3)shakir 4)dr ghali 5)mohsin khan 6)yusufali (this guy had raza of allah)

[Muslim First]

Aziz

U are uncouth, idiot abde, a slave in cult. You do not and will not understand difference between translation and original. Translation is best interpretation of the translator.

I will give you another example. Allama Iqubal's” Shiqwa” is translated by different authors and no two are same.

Get it in your thick Khopery. Translation is translation. You do not need permission to translate anything except you are imbecile Abde.

We the Muslims believe that when you do well you have implied permission from Allah SWT and if you do something bad, it is devil in your head.

Now trashing Abdulla Yusuf Ali, please remember that a good Muslim do not do it to a dead person. You as a Bohra have learned to curse people from the day you were conceived. Your More La learned that when he was conceived. According to Hadith one of way you get Sawab in after life is by writing something good. Abdulla Yusuf Ali has done that. Billions of people have read his translation and comments. Lot of people has accepted Islam based on that. Don't be "Hawan" learn to be human.

[candela]

...maybe yusuali who had permision from allah acoording to progs can explain

Assalaamu alaikum aziz!

One quote from someone whom we don't even know was a progressive or not does not imply that all progressives maintain that Yusuf Ali had permission from Allah(swt). Rather that statement, read in the context of the larger message, seems to be an expression of the belief that what Yusuf Ali was doing was a good thing, and especially that you don't need raza from the syedna in order to do good things. I.e., he didn't need permission from the syedna, he had it from God. This is not to be taken literally, it's just a figure of speech.

Regarding the discrepancies you pointed out between the Yusuf Ali and Sahih International translations, I too would have been repulsed by the discrepancies a few years back. I thought that translations had a one-to-one correspondence between languages, hence that there can be only one correct translation of anything from one language to another. Thus I too was repulsed to learn that there were multiple English translations of the Qur'an, and figured that most or all of them would have to be wrong. When I started learning a new language (Arabic), however, I came to realize that languages have markedly different logical structures, and thus the idea of there being only one correct translation for something doesn't make sense. For example, imagine translating something from Gujurati or Lisaan Al-Dawat to English, say to explain something to a friend. Do you imagine yourself giving a perfect translation of what was said in Lisaan Al-Dawat, one that captures the entirety of the statement, or do you imagine yourself just trying to get it as well as you can? This kind of question is one that translators have to deal with on a regular basis. Perhaps you might like to try learning a new language if you haven't already done so in order to get an idea of how complex and different languages can be from one another.

Wasalaam...

[aziz]

to MF from your post its evident to all who the uncouth evil foul mouthed person is,people like you make muslims hated all over the world,its you who has a thick unstable head which cannot accept anything if its different from your wahabbi interpretation.

show me one line where i have trashed or abused your yususali in my words ,i have just quoted what another prog has written ,as for the argument that if its good then allah has given permision and if bad then the devil is responsible then .explain the actions of the usurpers of moula ali,and umer who slapped moulatena fatema as ,the daughter of the prophet ,,
and allam iqbals book whoever he is is not the quran the word of allah.so mistakes can be made without any harm

[Muslim First]

explain the actions of the usurpers of moula ali,and umer who slapped moulatena fatema as ,the daughter of your prophet ,,

Br Aziz

It has been 1400 years of this dispute. You say it was usurped, Majority say it was not. Personally I say (and it might sound very crude) that Islam was not and is not personal property of Prophet SAW or his uncle. So when 3 became Khalifa they were not usurping your Maula's property.

[aziz]

so you accept that during your khalifa awwals time umer slapped moulatena fatema zahra sa,and it was the devil in his head that allowed it and then later he became your second khalifa..
i am glad that at least you did not refute that

[Muslim First]

so you accept that during your khalifa awwals time umer slapped moulatena fatema zahra sa

Br Aziz

Both of us were not when this incident happend or not. To my sensible mind it is impossible that Umar would slap daughter of Prophet and get away with it. We majority of Muslims do not dwell on such issues since worship of Allah is primary and only function in our Masjids. We do not have waiz in our masjid where Shahadats are recited with all mirchi Masala. If you have any evdence from Hadith please present it and I will tender my regrets on the behalf of Umar to you.

Wasalaam

[asif786]

explain the actions of the usurpers of moula ali,and umer who slapped moulatena fatema as ,the daughter of your prophet ,,

Br Aziz

It has been 1400 years of this dispute. You say it was usurped, Majority say it was not. Personally I say (and it might sound very crude) that Islam was not and is not personal property of Prophet SAW or his uncle. So when 3 became Khalifa they were not usurping your Maula's property.

Br MF

Well done! your saying that islam was not personal property of rasullah? dont you believe that rasullah does not say anything other than will of allah swt? this is your imam? without rasullah which allah are you worshipping . This exactly was the behaviour of arabs during rasullahs time and after him hence the ayat came that dont speak loudly in front of rasullah . would you said the same thing if you were standing in front of rasullah that whether Islam is your personal property? In your hatred for Ali a.s you have crossed all limits . May allah forgive you

[ghulam muhammed]

Free Copy of Holy Quran and Translations :-

http://www.quranproject.org/portal/

[incredible]

any body knows where is the grave of yusuf Ali?

[Al Zulfiqar]

He is buried in England at the Muslim cemetery at Brookwood, Surrey, near Woking, not far from the burial place of Pickthall.
(wikipedia)

[ghulam muhammed]

The Qur'an: A New Translation - The eternal present tense

The Qur'an: A New Translation
by Tarif Khalidi
530pp, Penguin Classics, £25

We look for two things in any new translation of the Qur'an. How close does it get to communicating the meaning of the original, that inimitable oral text, the very sounds of which move men and women to tears and ecstasy? And does it offer something more: a new perspective, perhaps; or an innovative rendering?

Tarif Khalidi, a professor of Islamic studies at the American University of Beirut, scores high on both these criteria. He manages to capture the allusiveness of the text, as well as something of its tone and texture. While being faithful to the original, he succeeds in conveying linguistic shifts, from narrative to mnemonic, sermons to parables. And there is an innovative component: it is the first translation that tries to capture both the rhythms and the structure of the Qur'an.

Khalidi wants the reader to enjoy the experience of reading the Qur'an. Of course, he wants to communicate the majesty of its language, the beauty of its style, and the "eternal present tense" of its grammar. But he also wants the reader to appreciate the Qur'an's unique structure, how the language changes with the subject matter, how it swirls around and makes rhythmic connections. He wishes to show how each of the seven tropes of the Qur'an (command, prohibition, glad tidings, warnings, sermons, parables and narratives) registers a change in the style of its language. A lofty ambition, but one he pulls off with some success.

http://newageislam.com/NewAgeIslamArtic ... icleID=195

[Tariq]

I can't even believe that there are people on this forum suggesting that an individual person should not read and understand the Holy Qu'ran. The first words revealed to the Messenger (PBUH) were 'Read in the name of thy Lord who created everything...' - the very first words in the Qu'ran testify to Man's requirement to read, recite and understand the Holy Qu'ran and as brothers have repeated previously there are multiple verses in the Qu'ran that TELL man that it's easy to understand. On the Day of Judgement none can save you except yourself and none can testify on your behalf - that includes the Dai.

This is a Book full of Blessings that we have revealed unto you so people ponder upon its verses and men of intellect may reflect. (Quran 38:29)

Pondering over a single verse is more beneficial to one's faith than reciting the whole Qu'ran.

[ghulam muhammed]

Bro Tariq,

To know the real meaning of Quran means creating awareness amongst abdes which in turn would result in multiple questions being raised by them because the dai and his administration do not adhere to the teachings of Quran and whatever little they do is just cosmetic.

Hence for fear of the dai being exposed due to his multiple actions which violates the basic tenets of Islam, the amils are instructed by the dai to strictly observe that abdes dont read the Quranic translations as percieved by scholars of various sects and hence they have started this new wave known as 'sabaks' where the abdes are served whatever is dished out to them by the amils. Anything outside its purview is a strict taboo for abdes.

Needless to say that the translations are prepared keeping in mind their hidden agenda which is to elevate the dai above all the holy personalities of Islam and also to create a friction within the ummah to such an extent that their hatred towards co-muslims is far greater then even hindus, parsis, christians and jews. This can be observed by anyone on a day to day basis. Yet the abdes are dazzled by the glamour and glitteri displayed by the dai and his zaadas on various occassions which overshadows their quest for truth and rightousness.

[stranger]

The main reasons are :

1. Arabic language is superior to all the languages and it is not possible to translate superior language to lower language with out losing its exact meaning.
2. Rasullah (SWT) at Gadeer-e-Khum announced, " I leave behind with you two things One Holy Quran and Alh-e-bait" Any one who follows them will be successful. Holy Quran is Sammit ( Non-Speaking) whereas Alhe-Bait is Natik (Speaking). That means Rasullah (SWT) left behind speaking and non-speaking quran. Reason for Holy Quran (Non-speaking) to be applicable in all ages is that there has to be a speaking quran always along with it which are the Imams (s.a) in the line of Imam Hussain (s.a).
It is true that Holy quran has been in simple language, but it has a deeper and hidden meanings, which a Speaking Quran (Imam) or his representative(Dai) can interpret it. So a bohras are encourage not to read translated quran and try to understand them self and interpret it wrongly, but join Bohra sabaqs( Sermons) or schools such as MSB or Jameaya tus saifeeyah Surat or pakistan and to understand true precious words and meanings of Glorious Quran. In such schools the teachers are those who have been tested by Syedna himself.
3. I hope you all must be aware, that many wrong doings are happening in the world due to wrong translation or interpretation by people who think they have authority. But what is the authenticity of their interpretation.
4. Even average bohri may not know arabic, but i bet majority of Bohra are aware the teachings of quran, There is special institute in Surat call Madah al Quran (http://mahadalquran.com/) where people from all the world come to learn and hifz quran.
5. Bohra's are rich in arabic poetry and volumes of arabic composes on Madeh, naat, Qasida, Marasia published every year is uncomparable. (http://www.sautuliman.com/index.php )

So basically to interpret and understand the quran, Rasullah(swt) had joined Speaking quran (Alhe-e-bait) with Holy Quran, and thats why a person will be successful only if he follows both together. Buy following Holy quran and not following Alhe-e-bait he/she will be never be successful (Evident in the world). So Imam after Imam continued to guide Ummah and interpret quran, until 21st Imam went in to seclusion and appointed 1st Dai Syedna Zoeb in Yemen to hold his office,till the day of Judgement. So now Dai is the sole authority on correct interpretation of quran.

[BlackSaya]

The main reasons are :

1. Arabic language is superior to all the languages and it is not possible to translate superior language to lower language with out losing its exact meaning.
2. Rasullah (SWT) at Gadeer-e-Khum announced, " I leave behind with you two things One Holy Quran and Alh-e-bait" Any one who follows them will be successful. Holy Quran is Sammit ( Non-Speaking) whereas Alhe-Bait is Natik (Speaking). That means Rasullah (SWT) left behind speaking and non-speaking quran. Reason for Holy Quran (Non-speaking) to be applicable in all ages is that there has to be a speaking quran always along with it which are the Imams (s.a) in the line of Imam Hussain (s.a).
It is true that Holy quran has been in simple language, but it has a deeper and hidden meanings, which a Speaking Quran (Imam) or his representative(Dai) can interpret it. So a bohras are encourage not to read translated quran and try to understand them self and interpret it wrongly, but join Bohra sabaqs( Sermons) or schools such as MSB or Jameaya tus saifeeyah Surat or pakistan and to understand true precious words and meanings of Glorious Quran. In such schools the teachers are those who have been tested by Syedna himself.
3. I hope you all must be aware, that many wrong doings are happening in the world due to wrong translation or interpretation by people who think they have authority. But what is the authenticity of their interpretation.
4. Even average bohri may not know arabic, but i bet majority of Bohra are aware the teachings of quran, There is special institute in Surat call Madah al Quran (http://mahadalquran.com/) where people from all the world come to learn and hifz quran.
5. Bohra's are rich in arabic poetry and volumes of arabic composes on Madeh, naat, Qasida, Marasia published every year is uncomparable. (http://www.sautuliman.com/index.php )

So basically to interpret and understand the quran, Rasullah(swt) had joined Speaking quran (Alhe-e-bait) with Holy Quran, and thats why a person will be successful only if he follows both together. Buy following Holy quran and not following Alhe-e-bait he/she will be never be successful (Evident in the world). So Imam after Imam continued to guide Ummah and interpret quran, until 21st Imam went in to seclusion and appointed 1st Dai Syedna Zoeb in Yemen to hold his office,till the day of Judgement. So now Dai is the sole authority on correct interpretation of quran.

It is for the above reasons that Bohras continue in burhanuddin/muffadul Idol worship, practice female genital mutilation, follow a calender which does not make sense, among other Jahil practices. Mushriks like Stranger will use reasons as above to avoid understanding the Quran.