Queries regards to Quran

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humanbeing
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Queries regards to Quran

#1

Unread post by humanbeing » Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:02 am

Why does Quran address Allah as “HE” … is Allah male ??

Does Quran guide on how to perform Namaz in details?

Is Adaan mentioned in Quran ?

anajmi
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Re: Queries regards to Quran

#2

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:51 am

Why does Quran address Allah as “HE” … is Allah male ??
When we were pregnant with our first child, and we would visit the doctor, at the time of the first sonography, the doctor asked us if we wanted to know the sex of the child. We said we didn't. The doctor then said that henceforth he will be referring to the child as a "he" but it doesn't mean that it is a boy. That is what they normally do. Our first child is a girl. So I am not saying that God is a girl too. But that is normal in many languages, including arabic. When you do not know about it, you refer to it as the male form. God made it easier for us to understand when he is referring to Himself. If God were to refer to Himself as a "She", we would've asked if God has breasts. And if God had referred to Himself as "Uthe" we wouldn'tve understood what He was saying.

By the way "Uthe" is a new gender that I have invented.
Does Quran guide on how to perform Namaz in details?
Have you read the Quran? You should read the Quran with translation. The Quran says obey Allah and obey the messenger. The messenger has given us the details about how to perform namaz.
Is Adaan mentioned in Quran ?
062.009
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! When the call is proclaimed to prayer on Friday (the Day of Assembly), hasten earnestly to the Remembrance of Allah, and leave off business (and traffic): That is best for you if ye but knew!
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! When the call is heard for the prayer of the day of congregation, haste unto remembrance of Allah and leave your trading. That is better for you if ye did but know.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! when the call is made for prayer on Friday, then hasten to the remembrance of Allah and leave off trading; that is better for you, if you know.

That is a reference to the Adhaan.

porus
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Re: Queries regards to Quran

#3

Unread post by porus » Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:51 am

humanbeing wrote:Why does Quran address Allah as “HE” … is Allah male ??
Because there is no neuter gender in Arabic, the only other possibility is for Allah to be addressed as a "SHE" Let us see how things will look if Allah was addressed as a "SHE" in the Quran.

Surat al-Ikhlas would read:

Qul hiya Allahu al-ihda
Allahu as-samadaa
lam talid wa lam tulad
wa lam takun lahu kufuwan ahad (or ihda).

Many everyday expressions involving Allah will change.

For instance, al-hamdulillahi raabil aalameen will chage to al-hamdulillahi rabbatil aalameen.

Allah yubaarik fi-ik will change to Allah tubaarik fi-ik, and so on.

Then, why is the Messenger a male? If she had been a female, surat al-ikhlas would start:

Qulee hiya Allahu al-ihda, and so on

If I were God, I would have referred to Allah in plural throughout to avoid charges of sexism in the 20th/21st century. Or I would have revealed the Quran in Sanskrit which has neuter gender in it. Alas, I am not God. But I think I would be a good one. :)

anajmi
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Re: Queries regards to Quran

#4

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:09 pm

Gender neutrality in Sanskrit is to refer to people like shikhandi. :wink:

Muslim First
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Re: Queries regards to Quran

#5

Unread post by Muslim First » Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:44 pm

Does Quran guide on how to perform Namaz in details?
PRAYER IN QUR’AN

ALLAH’S GUIDANCE

Qur’an 6:71-72

Qur’an 20:14

PRAISING THE ALLAH

Qur’an 110:1-3

Qur’an 18:23-24

Qur’an 30:17-18

CONDITION FOR PRAYER

(a) Washing before prayer (Wudu)

O who believe! Whenever you intend to pray, wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe your heads and [wash] your feet up to ankles.

(b) Full bath (Ghusl) if soiled

Qur’an 5:6

Qur’an 4:43

(c) Cleanliness in dress

Qur’an 7:31

Qur’an 74:4-5

(d) The direction of prayer

Qur’an 2:150

(e) The Times for prayer

Qur’an 4:103

Qur’an 11:114

Qur’an 17:78-80

Qur’an 20:130-132

(f) Prayer in Congregation

Qur’an 4:102

Qur’an 2:43

(g) Other Condition for Prayer

Qur’an 17:110

Qur’an 29:45

Qur’an 73:4

FRIDAY PRAYER

Qur’an 63:9-11

THE SPIRIT OF PRAYER

Qur’an 2:152-153

Qur’an 23:1-2

Qur’an 96:19

Qur’an 2:45

Qur’an 70:22-23

Qur’an 107:4-6

humanbeing
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Re: Queries regards to Quran

#6

Unread post by humanbeing » Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:01 am

God made it easier for us to understand when he is referring to Himself. If God were to refer to Himself as a "She", we would've asked if God has breasts. And if God had referred to Himself as "Uthe" we wouldn'tve understood what He was saying.
Hi Anajmi
We are referring to the most important book in Islam, so your example is a mere limitation or habit of few humans. I have come across many nursing homes, where gender of child in unknown, they refer it as child or baby !! which is gender neutral.

In my view, I don’t think god made it easier or difficult by referring oneself as “HE” or “SHE”.. its more of a male chauvinist outlook towards referring god as “HE” , not only in Islam, but in other religions too. If god was to be referred as “She” and questions would be asked about anatomy, then what stops us from asking anatomy question when referred as “he” ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi MF

Thanks for your response, I shall refer to mentioned references from Quran. I m aware that Quran guides a person on worshipping Allah. However does Quran mentions exact wordings as we recite in namaz ? Suraas are from Quran, so there is no question, but the Niyets we take while Wudu, and during the Arkaans in namaz, where did they originate ?

My apologies in advance if the answers are in references you mentioned.

I m aware that there are differences in way namaaz is performed amongst muslims, everyone claiming their way to be most accurate. So what settles this arguments. Also I had raised a query about language of reciting namaz has to be in Arabic only, why so ?

As per Anajmi’s response it is mentioned that Quran guides us to follow prophet’s teachings on namaz and its recitation. So one must follow as Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) preached or taught the early followers of Islam ! So now whose way of performing Namaz is accurate ! The duas, niyets and arkaans ? Can you provide reference of mannerism to be followed preached by Prophet.

Does Quran mentions exactly what needs to be recited for Adaan or Arkaans ? It provides reference or general guidelines.

Did pre Islamic Arabia, had Arabic as its language ? Was Quran revealed in Arabic ?

Muslim First
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Re: Queries regards to Quran

#7

Unread post by Muslim First » Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:20 am

AS
From here: http://www.islamdoor.com/Prayers.htm

The Prayer in arabic is must only for people who know arabic. You can not read koran (about 30 words only they call it Fatihaa and Surah)while standing in prayers in your language because God said it in Arabic and we have to say it as he said it to make sure that we have his words not translation. But all other parts of the prayers like SUPPLICATIONS u can say it in your language. If u can not learn these 30 words there are easy words u can use it and say it in your language here it is (Glory be to Allaah, and praise and thanks be to Allaah, and there is no god but Allaah, and Allaah is the most Exalted and Great.) for new muslim he can use and say these words in his prayers for all movements

I follow Sunni Islam and here is how to perform prayers by Sh, albani
The Prophet's Prayers
From The beginning To The End As Though You See It
http://abdurrahman.org/salah/prophetsPrayerAlbaani/

Shia prayers are valid so long as it is directed towards Allah only
Wasalaam

anajmi
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Re: Queries regards to Quran

#8

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:36 am

Hi Anajmi
We are referring to the most important book in Islam, so your example is a mere limitation or habit of few humans. I have come across many nursing homes, where gender of child in unknown, they refer it as child or baby !! which is gender neutral.

In my view, I don’t think god made it easier or difficult by referring oneself as “HE” or “SHE”.. its more of a male chauvinist outlook towards referring god as “HE” , not only in Islam, but in other religions too. If god was to be referred as “She” and questions would be asked about anatomy, then what stops us from asking anatomy question when referred as “he” ?
Well, nothing stops you from asking if God has a penis or not. But consider it idiotic to be asking this question to us who have never seen God. It would be better either to ask God himself on the Day of Judgement or better still, stop believing in him because He referred to himself as a He and the female inside you is now pissed. What is the point in asking these questions? Are you trying to show us that the Quran is a book written by man because God isn't gender neutral? Do you know that in Arabic even inanimate things are either referred to as male or as female. For eg. a book is referred to in the male form and a car is referred to in the female form. And, if you are referring to a plural form of an inanimate object, it is always referred to in the female form. Now imagine if intelligent folks like yourself start asking if a book has a penis or a car has a vagina. There is no chauvinism involved over here. People put forth these arguments to further their own beliefs which is a hatred for religion.
So now whose way of performing Namaz is accurate !
Let me ask you a question. Do you perform namaz? Whose way do you follow?

anajmi
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Re: Queries regards to Quran

#9

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:27 pm

humanbeing,

Sorry about that. I went a little bit ballistic with my earlier response. I am now calm.
Hi Anajmi
We are referring to the most important book in Islam, so your example is a mere limitation or habit of few humans. I have come across many nursing homes, where gender of child in unknown, they refer it as child or baby !! which is gender neutral.
The most important book in Islam was not revealed to teach us about the gender of God. It was revealed to us to follow the straight path as described by the Quran and the Sunnah of the prophet (saw).
In my view, I don’t think god made it easier or difficult by referring oneself as “HE” or “SHE”.. its more of a male chauvinist outlook towards referring god as “HE” , not only in Islam, but in other religions too. If god was to be referred as “She” and questions would be asked about anatomy, then what stops us from asking anatomy question when referred as “he” ?
It doesn't really matter what gender God refers to Himself as and what language he revealed his message in. People who do not want to believe would find some excuse to have a problem with it. If gender neutality is a make or break reason for you, then maybe you should believe in the sanskrit translation of the Quran where we can refer to God in the neutral gender.

porus
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Re: Queries regards to Quran

#10

Unread post by porus » Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:42 pm

porus wrote: If I were God, I would have referred to Allah in plural throughout to avoid charges of sexism in the 20th/21st century. Or I would have revealed the Quran in Sanskrit which has neuter gender in it. Alas, I am not God. But I think I would be a good one. :)
Referring to Allah in plural would not work in Arabic, because there are separate plural pronouns for male and female. And how would one translate "He" in Sanskrit or even in Gujarati?

My knowledge of Gujarati grammar is zero. I know that 'he' is 'te' and 'she' is 'teni' in 'shudhdh Gujarati', but what is a neuter 'he/she' in shudhdh Gujarati?

I love Allah

male sexist Gujarati: Allah mane wahaalo chhe.

female sexist Gujarati: Allah mane wahaali chhe.

neuter Gujarati: Allah mane wahaalu chhe.

anajmi
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Re: Queries regards to Quran

#11

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:28 pm

A non-sexist Gujarati who hasn't been neutered and who actually loves Allah would probably say -

Allah mane wahaala che.

porus
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Re: Queries regards to Quran

#12

Unread post by porus » Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:41 pm

anajmi wrote:A non-sexist Gujarati who hasn't been neutered and who actually loves Allah would probably say -

Allah mane wahaala che.
Nah. That is respectful plural, you silly!

Surat al-Ikhals in Gujarati, using respectful plural

1. bol, teo, Allah, ek chhe
2. teo nirantar chhe
3. teone koi bachcha nathi; ane teo koina baccha nathi
4. teona jewu kai nathi

Translating foregoing Gujarati into English:

1. Say, they, Allah are one
2. They are eternal
3. They do not have any children; and They are not anyone's child(ren)
4. There is nothing like Them

Now, try translating this English back into Arabic as an exercise, using male plural first and then using female plural.

anajmi
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Re: Queries regards to Quran

#13

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Since you are smarter than God, I am sure you will be able to figure out a way to solve this issue. humanbeing's hereafter is on the line. :wink:

humanbeing
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Re: Queries regards to Quran

#14

Unread post by humanbeing » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:28 am

God made it easier for us to understand when he is referring to Himself. If God were to refer to Himself as a "She", we would've asked if God has breasts. And if God had referred to Himself as "Uthe" we wouldn'tve understood what He was saying.
Hi Anajmi

I m surprised reading your responses. It was your post who started to mention anatomy of god and stuff, I was just counter responding to your immature explanation.

I m not passing any statements. I m raising questions as it comes to my mind. I m not denying existence of God. So stop throwing your prejudices on others at this forum. With reference to your another immature example of inanimate object. God / Allah is not an inanimate object. What is God ? I don’t know. I m learning, may be it will take my lifetime to understand what power and energy is Allah. I want to know what is Allah. As its centre of my faith, my religion, my existence. Everything I do, Everything I learn, from Quran or other references, I have to be at peace. I m not questioning Allah. I m questioning human beings who claim to know Allah. One example is yourself. Who conveniently calls Allah as male as matter of convenience. Limiting Allah to “male” or “female”

You are a rigid opinionated person. I see no difference between you and a mulla from kothar or any fanatic mulla from muslim clan. Who just shoot back with personal insults when someone doesn’t agree with your words. You are so insecure about your faith, that any question provokes you to humiliate others.

As “Allah” is referred as “He” in the context of Quran, that psychologically creates a male dominance in the society. If my opinion is wrong. I m ready to change my outlook. Provided I m convinced, not with your silly and immature examples which can be refuted. I m not a male chauvinist neither I m feminist. In fact you sound like a male chauvinist from your opinions.

Yes I perform Namaz, I perform namaz as taught in Bohra madrasa, as my mother taught me, I don’t know if it is right or wrong. Yes I recite Duas and Niyyets in Arabic because I have learned. And I would tell you the reasons also for raising question regards to recitation in Arabic or other languages. I m not asking questions out of my whim fancy or prejudice. We live lives with experiences altering our thought processes.

There are lot of good things taught in Quran, I don’t refute them, Niether I m stuck with one gender issue and disown Quran, the way you are accusing me. It’s the very rigid headed Mullas and priestly class in Islam which has abused Quranic teachings and ruling consciences of Muslims in this world.

I m not angry at you, I m disappointed.

feelgud
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Re: Queries regards to Quran

#15

Unread post by feelgud » Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:54 am

The term "We" in the Bible and in the Quran is the royal "We" - as an example when the king says, "We decree the following declaration, etc." or, "We are not amused." It does not indicate plural; rather it displays the highest position in the language. English, Persian, Hebrew, Arabic and many languages provide for the usage of "We" for the royal figure. It is helpful to note the same dignity is given to the person being spoken to in English. We say to someone, "You ARE my friend." Yet the person is only one person standing there. Why did we say "ARE" instead of "IS"? The noun "you" is singular and should therefore be associated with a singular verb for the state of being, yet we say, "are." The same is true for the speaker when referring to himself or herself. We say, "I am" and this is also in the royal plural, instead of saying, "I is."

When Allah uses the term "HE" in Quran it is similar to the above answer. The word "He" is used when referring to Allah out of respect, dignity and high status. It would be totally inappropriate to use the word "it" and would not convey the proper understanding of Allah being who Allah is; Alive, Compassionate, Forgiving, Patient, Loving, etc. It is not correct to associate the word "He" with gender, as this would be comparing Allah to the creation, something totally against the teaching of Quran.
42:11 (He is) the Creator of the heavens and the earth: He has made for you pairs from among yourselves, and pairs among cattle: by this means does He multiply you: there is nothing whatever like unto Him, and He is the One that hears and sees (all things).
still quran has to use human vocabulary to describe about God.

anajmi
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Re: Queries regards to Quran

#16

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:35 am

humanbeing,

This is a common pattern of those who are trying to learn. If you do not like the answers, accuse the other guy of being a rigid mulla. So here is where we are right now.

Allah has chosen to address himself as a "He" in the Quran. And you have been given immature and, I am sure, mature explanations as well. Now what do you do with those explanations is entirely upto you. Either you teach people that "He" in the Quran shouldn't be used to further male dominance or you accuse it to be the reason for male dominance. What have you chosen to do?
Who just shoot back with personal insults when someone doesn’t agree with your words.
Actually, I am not the one who has written the Quran. It isn't my words that you have a problem with.
Yes I perform Namaz, I perform namaz as taught in Bohra madrasa, as my mother taught me, I don’t know if it is right or wrong. Yes I recite Duas and Niyyets in Arabic because I have learned. And I would tell you the reasons also for raising question regards to recitation in Arabic or other languages. I m not asking questions out of my whim fancy or prejudice. We live lives with experiences altering our thought processes.
Duas and niyyah do not need to be recited in Arabic. They can be recited in any language you know.
It’s the very rigid headed Mullas and priestly class in Islam which has abused Quranic teachings and ruling consciences of Muslims in this world.
You need to make up your mind. Is it the Quran which has caused problems or is it the people who have abused Quranic teachings? Do you have a problem with Allah referring to himself as a "He" in the Quran or not? If that is your problem, then it has nothing to do with abuse of Quranic teachings because that is what the Quran teaches.

anajmi
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Re: Queries regards to Quran

#17

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:20 am

I m questioning human beings who claim to know Allah. One example is yourself. Who conveniently calls Allah as male as matter of convenience. Limiting Allah to “male” or “female”
I do not call Allah as male or female. If that is how you understood my posts, then no wonder you are having so many questions. I refer to Allah only how HE taught us to refer to HIM. And I do not question as to why HE chose to refer to HIMSELF as HE in the Quran because I know that this reference has nothing to do with being male or female. That is a level of understanding that you have to reach before you are at peace with yourself.
You are so insecure about your faith, that any question provokes you to humiliate others.
You seriously think I am insecure about my faith? Despite the fact that it is you have been asking these questions and the only one making an effort to answer them is me?
I m not angry at you, I m disappointed.
:) Dissappointed because I wasn't able to fix the Quran as per your liking?

porus
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Re: Queries regards to Quran

#18

Unread post by porus » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:16 pm

Brother feelgud,

That is and speculative answer/explanation. Allah does use 'royal' or 'respectful 'We', 'us' and 'ours' when referring to Himself/Herself. But not when humans refer to Him/Her in the Quran. e.g. in Surat al-Fatiha it states 'iyyaka na'abudu'. Interestingly, here, human refers to himself as royal "we" which would be appropriate only if more than one human were reciting together.

And why should "SHE" be any less respectful than "He"? And why should "IT" convey any less power, dignity, omniscience, etc.?

Here is your quote slightly edited:

"When Allah uses the term "SHE" in Quran it is similar to the above answer. The word "SHE" is used when referring to Allah out of respect, dignity and high status. It would be totally inappropriate to use the word "it" and would not convey the proper understanding of Allah being who Allah ARE; Alive, Compassionate, Forgiving, Patient, Loving, etc. It is not correct to associate the word "She" with gender, as this would be comparing Allah to the creation, something totally against the teaching of Quran.

42:11 She is the Creator of the heavens and the earth: She has made for you pairs from among yourselves, and pairs among cattle: by this means does She multiply you: there is nothing whatever like unto Her, and She is the One that hears and sees all things.

Still, quran has to use human vocabulary to describe about God."
Last edited by porus on Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

anajmi
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Re: Queries regards to Quran

#19

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:39 pm

In Arabic, "He" doesn't neccessarily refer to a man and a "She" doesn't neccessarily refer to a woman. For example

هذ كتاب. هُوَ قديمٌ

English translation would be - This is a book. It is old.

قُلْ هُوَ ٱللَّهُ أَحَدٌ

Say He is Allah the One

هُوَ in one case is translated as it and in the other case it is translated as He. One would need to have a mind narrower than a strand of hair to have a problem with this because otherwise, we could raise a similar issue with every noun in Arabic. Now, Allah could've chosen هِيَ instead of هُوَ to refer to himself, but then, can you imagine the havoc that would've been created by the exact same folks? I can.

porus
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Re: Queries regards to Quran

#20

Unread post by porus » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:50 pm

anajmi wrote:In Arabic, "He" doesn't neccessarily refer to a man and a "She" doesn't neccessarily refer to a woman.
Unless, of course, "He" or "She" is referring to a human.

So, let us rewrite:

In Arabic, "He" neccessarily refers to a male and a "She" necessarily refers to a female. Every noun is either male or female, including those referring to humans.

anajmi
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Re: Queries regards to Quran

#21

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:10 pm

Incorrect. Unless your definition of male and female changes from the current definition which is

male
1. a person bearing an X and Y chromosome pair in the cell nuclei and normally having a penis, scrotum, and testicles, and developing hair on the face at adolescence; a boy or man.
2. an organism of the sex or sexual phase that normally produces a sperm cell or male gamete.
3. Botany . a staminate plant.

female
1. a person bearing two X chromosomes in the cell nuclei and normally having a vagina, a uterus and ovaries, and developing at puberty a relatively rounded body and enlarged breasts, and retaining a beardless face; a girl or woman.
2. an organism of the sex or sexual phase that normally produces egg cells.
3. Botany . a pistillate plant.

http://www.dictionary.com

The definitions need to be changed in such a way that the "male" definition includes a book and other arabic "male" objects and the definition of "female" includes a car and other arabic "female" objects. Infact, once we achieve this universal (in scientific terms) definition of male and female we will no longer have questions like
Why does Quran address Allah as “HE” … is Allah male ??

porus
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Re: Queries regards to Quran

#22

Unread post by porus » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:32 pm

my dear anajmi,

Before you get too self-congratulatory about your prowess in linguistics, I advise that you take this up with a متخصص\متخصصة في اللغة العربية. :)
Last edited by porus on Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

anajmi
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Re: Queries regards to Quran

#23

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:35 pm

Can you translate that please? Being smarter than God, I am expecting you to be resolving these issues and changing these definitions.

humanbeing
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Re: Queries regards to Quran

#24

Unread post by humanbeing » Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:56 pm

Hi Anajmi

First I request you to please stop taking my question as accusation towards Islam or Quran. I m not a learned person. I m an average muslim with basic understanding of Islam. Many question and queries arise in my mind. I wish to further my understanding. I have not refuted a logical explanation. All I seek is more better and clearer explanation.

I was responding to your rude and arrogant response to my questions, please re read your posts. It was your post that started all anatomy talks of “breast” and “penis” and throwing your displeasure at me.

I would have welcomed a healthy discussion from you minus the irritation. And how do you justify asking questions and doubts over islam means one is insecure about Islam. Early followers of Islam too had many questions. Did prophet answered them with disgust and throwing back displeasure of questioning his authority.

Im not angry at you but disappointed, this statement had no relation with Quran. I meant it for you. I was disappointed that you shot back with such harsh response rather than a polite discussion.

I have asked many controversial questions on this forum, and many members have responded with politeness. Muslim First, Porus and others. However you pretend as if you are the only humble strict follower of Islam and Quran to the ‘T’.. and any questions not satisfactory to your high level intelligence must be ridiculed with disgust.

My questions are not directed to you exclusively. Niether I stated that you have written Quran. So stop manipulating my words.

I m not rigid, I m open to change my opinions. Infact these are my questions. Call it my ignorance, my foolishness. Fine I m happy as long as I can get this queries cleared. May be I m late in learning, May be I m slow.

\With regards to reciting Duas and Niyyets,
Anajmi Wrote: Duas and niyyah do not need to be recited in Arabic. They can be recited in any language you know.
Is Namaz performed in Arabic recitations only ?
Yes. However, you can make Dua in your own language after completing Namaz.
Dua and Niyyets I meant the Arabic suraas and arkaan. According to above response of yours, you mentioned Namaz can be performed in Arabic recitations only.

anajmi
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Queries regards to Quran

#25

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:16 pm

humanbeing,

I think it is time you stop complaining about me and start looking at the answers that have been provided to you. If you have more questions about the answers please post them over here.
Duas and Niyyets I meant the Arabic suraas and arkaan. According to above response of yours, you mentioned Namaz can be performed in Arabic recitations only.
Duas, niyah, suraas and arkans are different parts of the namaz are shouldn't be used interchangeably. Suraas can only be performed in Arabic and arkaans like what you recite when you go into ruku or in sujood should also be recited only in Arabic. Although you should try to learn what it is that you are reciting. Niyyah and Duas can be recited in any language and they should be recited in a language that you know so that you do not make a mistake. For eg. if you are reciting a dua in arabic and do not have a clue, you might end up asking Allah for a good husband. That might be a problem. So it is better to understand what it is that you are asking of Allah. Same is the case with intention. We shouldn't intend to pray maghrib at the time of zuhr, which happens if you memorize niyaahs.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Queries regards to Quran

#26

Unread post by humanbeing » Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:32 am

Hi Anajmi
Oh ! Thanks for your advise ! in case you thought I was just reading your post and not reading answers from other members (feelgud, porus and Muslim First)

Anyhow, thanks for the explanation on Namaz Niyets and Duaas. As per the bohra madarasa teachings, what I have learnt and meant by
Niyyets : The Maghib, zuhur, isha niyats, wudu niyats etc.
Duaas : The Subhaana, Takarrub, etc etc types. Corrrect me if I m wrong, this duaas are not in Quran ?
Arkaan : Actions like – Ruku, Sujud, Salaam (looking right & left after completing namaz)
If you understand Gujarati : Usually it is said, “Ruku ma Aa duaa padhe, Sujud ma aa Duaa padhe “ , “Maghrib ni Niyyet Lo”, Isha ni Niyyet”

I have learnt the meaning of few Surahs and Arkaan niyyets. This question came to my mind as during general chatting with my muslims friends, we were discussing about namaz. I was adamant on the same issue, that Namaz shall be learnt and performed in Arabic only.. Various viewpoints were shared from different muslim friends, males and females. One female friend shared that she perform Namaz in Urdu. That she performs her arkaan in the language she understand. As god / allah doesn’t need or limited to one language. Namaz performed from heart and with honesty towards allah is good enough to have your namaz or worship accepted. It was a general discussion on islam, various points with regards to monopoly of Arabic language to converse to Allah was discussed. As how arabs think they own islam ! As how due to complexity of Arabic language, quran is misinterpreted by priestly class. Etc etc. So gender issue also cropped up, as why every statement Allah is referred as He, because Quran was revealed to Prophet and compiled by Asahaabs. Now this were the points in that discussion. I m reading the explanations given on this forum as well as reading other sites on internet.

Now please don’t generalize this incident and accuse me of accepting and following some ordinary muslim person’s point of view and pass your judgements. Morever I m sharing this incident with others too. So that they can provide their polite responses.

Conscíous
Posts: 1491
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:41 pm

Re: Queries regards to Quran

#27

Unread post by Conscíous » Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:58 am

humanbeing wrote:Hi Anajmi
Oh ! Thanks for your advise ! in case you thought I was just reading your post and not reading answers from other members (feelgud, porus and Muslim First)
Haha ..^^ :mrgreen:

Humanbeing,
You can't blame the poor guy, because he has "attention deficit hyperactivity disorder" ..

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Queries regards to Quran

#28

Unread post by humanbeing » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:32 am

Hi Friends

On a philosophical perspective, I think Allah is an energy, a power unseen but felt. We do all the acitivities mentioned in Quran. Does Allah actually benefit from those actions. Be it Namaz, Zakat, Soum, Hajj. I see only human benefits in all this actions. When we say Allah is all Merciful, why do we say so ! Allah doesn’t send buckets of gold coins to our doorstep or keep us healthy no matter what. But Allah is an energy which makes us do things as stipulated in Quran for our own betterment. Guidelines in Quran are no different then preaching from other religions’ text. Details may vary, language may be different, references and examples may be different but preaches same points. Love affection and empathy towards living beings.

God is an emotion of love, fear, curiosity, anger and many more. God is an energy of hope, spirit, optimism, solace, courage. No matter how much or how deep we follow or believe a particular faith, but believe in God is always there, one omniscient power. We look up in pride to thank god, we look down in dismay to seek god’s help. We look around to praise the beauty of nature, indirectly praising the god the creator.

This are my views influenced by reading, interacting and observing various people and situations in life. I don’t have any reference books to authenticate my thinking.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Queries regards to Quran

#29

Unread post by Muslim First » Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:28 am

Human
Duaas : The Subhaana, Takarrub, etc etc types. Corrrect me if I m wrong, this duaas are not in Quran ?
Please see this link for Duas (Supplications) from Qura’n
http://www.duas.org/qunoot.htm

anajmi
Posts: 13508
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Queries regards to Quran

#30

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:37 am

Oh ! Thanks for your advise ! in case you thought I was just reading your post and not reading answers from other members (feelgud, porus and Muslim First)
Sorry about that but you are right. I didn't think you were reading anything posted by Muslim First and the others considering how much attention you were paying to what I had posted.
As how due to complexity of Arabic language, quran is misinterpreted by priestly class.
041.044
YUSUFALI: Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in the language) other than Arabic, they would have said: "Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in Arabic and (a Messenger an Arab?" Say: "It is a Guide and a Healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not, there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes): They are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!"
PICKTHAL: And if We had appointed it a Lecture in a foreign tongue they would assuredly have said: If only its verses were expounded (so that we might understand)? What! A foreign tongue and an Arab? - Say unto them (O Muhammad): For those who believe it is a guidance and a healing; and as for those who disbelieve, there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness for them. Such are called to from afar.
SHAKIR: And if We had made it a Quran in a foreign tongue, they would certainly have said: Why have not its communications been made clear? What! a foreign (tongue) and an Arabian! Say: It is to those who believe a guidance and a healing; and (as for) those who do not believe, there is a heaviness in their ears and it is obscure to them; these shall be called to from a far-off place.

026.193
YUSUFALI: With it came down the spirit of Faith and Truth-
PICKTHAL: Which the True Spirit hath brought down
SHAKIR: The Faithful Spirit has descended with it,
026.194
YUSUFALI: To thy heart and mind, that thou mayest admonish.
PICKTHAL: Upon thy heart, that thou mayst be (one) of the warners,
SHAKIR: Upon your heart that you may be of the warners
026.195
YUSUFALI: In the perspicuous Arabic tongue.
PICKTHAL: In plain Arabic speech.
SHAKIR: In plain Arabic language.

041.003
YUSUFALI: A Book, whereof the verses are explained in detail;- a Qur'an in Arabic, for people who understand;-
PICKTHAL: A Scripture whereof the verses are expounded, a Lecture in Arabic for people who have knowledge,
SHAKIR: A Book of which the verses are made plain, an Arabic Quran for a people who know:

039.028
YUSUFALI: (It is) a Qur'an in Arabic, without any crookedness (therein): in order that they may guard against Evil.
PICKTHAL: A Lecture in Arabic, containing no crookedness, that haply they may ward off (evil).
SHAKIR: An Arabic Quran without any crookedness, that they may guard (against evil).

012.002
YUSUFALI: We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an, in order that ye may learn wisdom.
PICKTHAL: Lo! We have revealed it, a Lecture in Arabic, that ye may understand.
SHAKIR: Surely We have revealed it-- an Arabic Quran-- that you may understand.

043.003
YUSUFALI: We have made it a Qur'an in Arabic, that ye may be able to understand (and learn wisdom).
PICKTHAL: Lo! We have appointed it a Lecture, in Arabic that haply ye may understand.
SHAKIR: Surely We have made it an Arabic Quran that you may understand.

042.007
YUSUFALI: Thus have We sent by inspiration to thee an Arabic Qur'an: that thou mayest warn the Mother of Cities and all around her,- and warn (them) of the Day of Assembly, of which there is no doubt: (when) some will be in the Garden, and some in the Blazing Fire.
PICKTHAL: And thus We have inspired in thee a Lecture in Arabic, that thou mayst warn the mother-town and those around it, and mayst warn of a day of assembling whereof there is no doubt. A host will be in the Garden, and a host of them in the Flame.
SHAKIR: And thus have We revealed to you an Arabic Quran, that you may warn the mother city and those around it, and that you may give warning of the day of gathering together wherein is no doubt; a party shall be in the garden and (another) party in the burning fire.

013.037
YUSUFALI: Thus have We revealed it to be a judgment of authority in Arabic. Wert thou to follow their (vain) desires after the knowledge which hath reached thee, then wouldst thou find neither protector nor defender against Allah.
PICKTHAL: Thus have We revealed it, a decisive utterance in Arabic; and if thou shouldst follow their desires after that which hath come unto thee of knowledge, then truly wouldst thou have from Allah no protecting friend nor defender.
SHAKIR: And thus have We revealed it, a true judgment in Arabic, and if you follow their low desires after what has come to you of knowledge, you shall not have against Allah any guardian or a protector.

016.103
YUSUFALI: We know indeed that they say, "It is a man that teaches him." The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is Arabic, pure and clear.
PICKTHAL: And We know well that they say: Only a man teacheth him. The speech of him at whom they falsely hint is outlandish, and this is clear Arabic speech.
SHAKIR: And certainly We know that they say: Only a mortal teaches him. The tongue of him whom they reproach is barbarous, and this is clear Arabic tongue.

020.113
YUSUFALI: Thus have We sent this down - an arabic Qur'an - and explained therein in detail some of the warnings, in order that they may fear Allah, or that it may cause their remembrance (of Him).
PICKTHAL: Thus we have revealed it as a Lecture in Arabic, and have displayed therein certain threats, that peradventure they may keep from evil or that it may cause them to take heed.
SHAKIR: And thus have We sent it down an Arabic Quran, and have distinctly set forth therein of threats that they may guard (against evil) or that it may produce a reminder for them.

These are some of the ayahs that talk about the Quran being in Arabic for various reasons. The reason Allah chooses to mention the language that it is revealed in is because it doesn't matter which translation of the Quran you are reading, the word "Arabic" doesn't change. Anyone reading any translation knows that Allah has revealed the Quran in Arabic. Most muslims understand this. That is why children born in muslim families are taught how to read Arabic very early and they are taught to memorize the small surahs of the Quran so that they can complete the namaaz as per the prophet (saw)'s guidelines. Namaaz is for Allah. We shouldn't corrupt it by completing it in other languages because then we introduce the "He", "She", "It" issues into the namaaz that come with other languages. For the sake of understanding it is ok to read translations because you can work around these issues. People who pray in Urdu, actually never learned the Quran and are now giving you an excuse by saying that Allah doesn't care about languages (Please, please, please forgive me, if I wasn't polite enough towards your female friend).

Fixed recitations within the namaz are different from Dua. Dua is when you raise your hands and ask God for favours. In gujarathi they say, "Hamaara waaste Dua Karjo". There are other duas that the prophet (saw) taught us for eg. a dua while leaving the house, a dua while entering the house etc etc. The best thing to do is to learn these duas in Arabic. But if you cannot, then you can do dua in any language.

Within Namaz (after taking the niyyah and before saying salaam), you can do dua in a different language only in sujood (some scholars prohibit this as well) after completing the "Subhaana Rabbial Ala wa Ta'ala" 3, 5 or 7 or as many times as you prefer. Everything else within namaz is to be said in Arabic. You might still continue to do it in Urdu or other language, whether the prayers will be accepted or not, I cannot say. What I can say is this, it is said that Hazrat Ali (ra) used to shiver in his prayers. When asked, he said that he was shivering out of fear of what would happen if his prayers are not accepted by Allah. This is the case of the greatest of sahaabas of the prophet (saw) and we pretend that we know what is right and what is not. We have already declared that Allah has caused the male dominance issue and that Allah made a mistake by choosing a complex language like Arabic. Again, please forgive me if I wasn't polite enough for you.
Last edited by anajmi on Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:32 am, edited 2 times in total.