SOURCES

[Adam]

@ANAJMI

My sources are the Quran and the Sunnah of the prophet (saw). There is no FGM in the Quran and there is no FGM sanctioned by the prophet (saw). If Hazrat Ali (ra) made it a law, then either he is wrong, or someone else manipulated his words to enslave and oppress women.

Great.
BUT each book has it's own sources.

1. QURAN
It has many Tafseers and Translations to understand it. Each Tafseer or Translation has an opinion of the translator of Mufassirs belief.

WHICH TAFSEER, TRANSLATION do you follow?

2. SUNNAH
Again, very general.
Do you have the teachings of Rasulullah SAW in his own words, writing, audio? (I didn't think so).
So, for this SUNNAH that you follow, you must go through a few SOURCES, BOOKS, AUTHORITY from which you derive your understandings.

PLEASE NAME ONE! ONE! For Each. (One for Quran Source and ONE for Sunnah source).
This isn't very difficult for a "scholar" like you. VERY EASY. Don't be a coward.

[/color]

[Adam]

This is the question I had posted to ANAJMI on another post.
He said:

My sources are the Quran and the Sunnah of the prophet (saw).

He said before that

My great scholars have rejected your sources and their translations.

So I said:

You referred to HUMANS. WHO ARE THEY?
Translations? Who interprets for you?
Name one, for crying out loud!
Reason being, you have none, except guess work to guess what you think maybe right or wrong. ONE NAME you Coward. ONE NAME! Person authority or Book for the understanding of Sunnah, there are MANY out there!

Then I posted the above.

Anajmi hasn't replied with even ONE Source that helps him understand the Quran and Sunnah.


In Leadership qualities, they always talk about "don't keep pointing out the problems, talk about the solution".
All ANAJMI and other Proggies point out, criticize DB faith and belief at every turn (when there truly aren't any issues with it to begin with), BUT at the same time, never seem to look into their own selves and judge themselves or their own sources and criticize them.

Two faced coward? I guess so.

[anajmi]

WHICH TAFSEER, TRANSLATION do you follow? - GREEN

I seek help from many different Tafseers. There is Maulana Maududi, Israr Ahmed, Ibn Katheer and others. I compare them when I have doubts. But there are some people that I will avoid like the plague like the Dawoodi Bohra Dai. I won't follow his Tafseer even if Jibraeel (as) were to himself come and tell me that the Dai is on the right path.

2. SUNNAH
Again, very general.
Do you have the teachings of Rasulullah SAW in his own words, writing, audio? (I didn't think so).
So, for this SUNNAH that you follow, you must go through a few SOURCES, BOOKS, AUTHORITY from which you derive your understandings. GRRREEEN

I don't have his own writing or his audio. I am sure you do, can you post it over here? Till you do, I am following hadith as explained by Bukhari, Muslim and others. What do you follow? A Dai who wants you to kiss his feet and commit shirk?

When I still have doubts, I go and talk to Imams of masajids or other learned people that I know. That excludes the Bohra Amils cause they are more ignorant about the Quran and Sunnah of the prophet (saw) than a donkey is about quantum theory.

Now, I have answered your questions. Can you please post the translations of the Arabic text that you posted regarding my question about the Shia and Sunni sources of your FGM law? Please also post the references. If you do not then I am going to say COWARD COWARD COWARD over and over again every time you post anything. Now, you do not want me to call you a COWARD do you?

[Adam]

I seek help from many different Tafseers. There is Maulana Maududi, Israr Ahmed, Ibn Katheer and others. I compare them when I have doubts.

The dog is making progress.
You see, the DIFFERENT interpretations of Islam and the Quran will arise at every step. As their is a VAST difference in authority.
Each of the 3 mentioned all follow a different belief, thus each of their Tafseers will take you to what they think. Causing all confusion.

But there are some people that I will avoid like the plague like the Dawoodi Bohra Dai. I won't follow his Tafseer even if Jibraeel (as) were to himself come and tell me that the Dai is on the right path.

I know this was a figure of speech, but if you analyze it just comes to show how lacking in confidence you are.
1. You wouldn't believe Jibraeel! (Isn't he supposed to be right, you SHOULD listen to what he says, and not follow your own EGOTISTIC "I AM RIGHT" opinion. Learn from others, especially GREAT ONES!). You sound like Salman Rushdie, even he thought Jibraeel wasn't correct.
2. If you doubt Jibraeels advice, how do you know your OTHER sources are right or wrong! How do you know right from wrong? Are following doubt?

When I still have doubts, I go and talk to Imams of masajids or other learned people that I know.

Again, each Imams opinion differs to another. How do you know right from wrong? Because we aren't perfect, OUR common sense isn't enough for belief, correct guidance from the CORRECT ones is needed.

I posted the translations in brief.
It just comes to show that YOU, who doesn't even understand SIMPLE Arabic, how can you even criticize religion! When you don't understand half of the ORIGINAL texts? You rely on "many others", how do you know who's right or wrong?

What you just said clarifies that YOU AREn't of SHIA, nor Ahlul Bayt, nor Ismaili, nor, Fatimi, nor Dawoodi Bohra belief
1. What are you doing on this forum anyway!
2. How come NOT ONE PROGGY has ever argued ANAJMI? When he clearly doesn't share ANY common beliefs?
PROGGIES are 2 faced cowards. They feel "the enemy of their enemy is their friend", but fail to realize, that "friend" is actually the enemy of what's supposed to be their own beliefs![/color]

[anajmi]

2. If you doubt Jibraeels advice, how do you know your OTHER sources are right or wrong! How do you know right from wrong? Are following doubt?

Tripping over yourself aren't you? I wouldn't follow Jibraeel's advise if he gave it to me supporting your idol Dai. That shows how much I trust the message delivered by the prophet (saw). I follow and believe everything he delivered to the last and final prophet of Islam. You however, along with other abde idol worshippers will believe any Tom, Dai and Harry that comes along asking you to bow down before them.

The dog is making progress.

Showing your true colors aren't you, you pig? Covering shit with leaves doesn't eliminate the stink.

Again, each Imams opinion differs to another. How do you know right from wrong?

You have to look at the character of the person. Look at the character of the Dai. He is a coward who ran in police cars and left his abde idiots to get hammered. He then apologized for his deeds. He is surrounded by a bunch of zaadas and zaadees who extort money from his hapless worshippers, he forces his abde idiots to bow down before him with folded hands. He charges exorbitant amounts of money from abde idiots clamouring to kiss his feet. He goes hunting animals for pleasure. The Imams that I seek advise from know the Quran inside out. All your Dai knows is how to make you morons beat your chests.

OUR common sense isn't enough for belief

You are talking about your own common sense which I do not doubt is seriously lacking. The Quran asks us to use our common sense and think and ponder over its ayahs. But you idiots have been prevented from doing that so that your Dai can continue to milk you dry.

What you just said clarifies that YOU AREn't of SHIA, nor Ahlul Bayt, nor Ismaili, nor, Fatimi, nor Dawoodi Bohra belief

Again you display your lack of common sense. You didn't have to get yourself hammered to figure this out. It isn't a secret that I am no longer a shia, nor Ismaili, nor Fatimi nor Alhumdulillah an idol worshipping, feet kissing dawoodi fool. And I am not an Ahlul Bayt worshipper. I follow the Quran and the Sunnah of the prophet (saw) which prevents me from worshipping anything other than Allah.

[asad]

Dear Adam,

just when i was making some sense out of your posts you have resorted to name calling. now how typical can that be of a Abde is anyone's guess.

i have marked my post in Green so that you dont have trouble reading it.

[asad]

Mustafa agreed,

but name calling will also differentiate civilized people with uncouth. choice is ours

[Adam]

@asad
Firstly, let me apologize to all for that.
I too am sickened and sorry for my behaviour for stooping to that level, such as of Mr Najmis. (The Quran does state: "They are like Dogs, if you attack them they will bark, even if you leave them alone, they will bark")
What Brother Mustafa said is true "it is typical of a human being who is fed up of trying to make a point only to be met a stone wall, for no reason whatsoever". I should've controlled myself like i've done before, but maybe he got the worst of me today.
If you have observed, I haven't said such nasty things to others. Anajmi, is different. There's no point conversing with him. Plus, most of his comments are so full of hatred, off topic and diverting, most of the times it's best to ignore, BUT, sometimes it's better to clarify his insanity and move on.
You will not believe the amount of Private messages I get from both, Progs and Dawoodi Bohras requesting me to ignore Anajmi and continue talking. I feel sorry for him, but he is a bit annoying.

Again, sorry for that.

[asad]

Thanks Adam for understanding, and i think Anajmi didnt start name calling he just returned the favor.

I hope you will be with us for long time.

[anajmi]

He He He. It is funny how I can rattle people. That is because I tend to show people their own true colors (pun intended).

[Adam]

@ANAJMI

When I still have doubts, I go and talk to Imams of masajids or other learned people that I know.

Are you sure they are right? And confident that they don't contradict each other on ANYTHING? If they do, how do you know who's right?

The Quran does say to ponder, but, it also says "Ask the Ahlu Zikra whatever you don't know." So, who are YOUR Ahlu Zikr?

I had also posted this before:

What you just said clarifies that YOU AREn't of SHIA, nor Ahlul Bayt, nor Ismaili, nor, Fatimi, nor Dawoodi Bohra belief
1. What are you doing on this forum anyway!
2. How come NOT ONE PROGGY has ever argued ANAJMI? When he clearly doesn't share ANY common beliefs?
PROGGIES are 2 faced cowards. They feel "the enemy of their enemy is their friend", but fail to realize, that "friend" is actually the enemy of what's supposed to be their own beliefs!

[anajmi]

Are you sure they are right? And confident that they don't contradict each other on ANYTHING? If they do, how do you know who's right?

This is where common sense, which you lack or choose not to use, comes into the picture. My common sense has made me independent of a hell bound Dai. Your lack of it has bound you to him.

The Quran does say to ponder, but, it also says "Ask the Ahlu Zikra whatever you don't know." So, who are YOUR Ahlu Zikr?

Haven't I answered that question already you moron? A couple of times now and in different ways. Use your common sense. Oh. Sorry, you do not have any.

[anajmi]

Here is something else to ponder upon. Why is the Dai the source and the last word on the sharia of everything for the abdes? Is it because of his exempolararory knowledge on the Quran and the Islamic shariah or because he was (not really) appointed by the Imam?

All abde idiots will tell you that that is because he was appointed by the Imam. You won't find one who will say because of his exemplarorayyary knowledge of the Quran and the Shariah. What that means is that the Dai isn't followed because of his Aql but because of his appointer. Which means that the abdes are already violating the commandments of the Quran. The Quran asks you to seek out those who are more knowledgeable and not those who were appointed by someone who was appointed by someone else.

It has been shown on this forum time and time again that the Dai does things against the shariah of the prophet (saw) of Islam which means that he is either not knowledgeable in the shariah or is purposely ignoring it. Either way, the bohras would be better off shunning him

[Adam]

This is where common sense, which you lack or choose not to use, comes into the picture.

I feel, common sense is good for answers relating to worldly affairs of life.
But when is comes to religion, you have no right to base your decision on your ownself, as it isn't yours to decide in the first place. It's a LAW, you just have to follow it.

What is right and wrong? How do you differentiate? IF man could do it on his own, what is the reason to send the Prophets after Prophets in the first place? What is the need for Rasulullah to come other Sooo many Prophets, when all their teachings were correct?
Egotistic Philosophers are of this thought. They say we don't need anyone! We don't need a Nabi, the same way you people say you don't need anyone, we have our Aql.
You aren't perfect, neither are your judgements.

Haven't I answered that question already you moron? A couple of times now and in different ways. Use your common sense. Oh. Sorry, you do not have any.

No, I don't remeber you answering this. Please remind me (its because most of the time I ignore what you say)
Who is your Ahlu Zikr? Who do you ask?

All abde idiots will tell you that that is because he was appointed by the Imam. You won't find one who will say because of his exemplarorayyary knowledge of the Quran and the Shariah. What that means is that the Dai isn't followed because of his Aql but because of his appointer.

The Imam would ONLY appoint whom has exemplarory knowledge of the Quran and the Shariah, as he has to guide the people of his time.

[anajmi]

But when is comes to religion, you have no right to base your decision on your ownself

That is going against the direction of the Quran. Allah has asked you to use your common sense. And then if you cannot find answers go to an Alim. If you find different Alim's with different opinions, then use your common sense and go to a third Alim. If you are still confused, then pray to Allah. Do not follow a person who has been shown to be a corrupt man with ulterior motives.

What is right and wrong? How do you differentiate? IF man could do it on his own, what is the reason to send the Prophets after Prophets in the first place?

Again, use your common sense. Prophets were given knowledge by Allah. They explained it to the rest of us. People who are corrupt with ulterior motives are different from prophets chosen by Allah. You have these questions because you lack common sense.

Please remind me (its because most of the time I ignore what you say)

Actually, you didn't ignore it and you even responded to it. I am sure you will be able to find it, since you have chosen to identify your posts in green. But you might not if you do not have any common sense. And if you don't due to lack of common sense, then promise me that you won't ignore it this time and I will tell you again.

The Imam would ONLY appoint whom has exemplarory knowledge of the Quran and the Shariah, as he has to guide the people of his time.

Who told you that? Which book? Can you quote it please? Your Imam has fooled you by appointing this Dai who has violated a lot of injunctions of the Shariah as I have shown in multiple posts. Only if you had an iota of common sense!!

[profastian]

@Adam,

If a person doesn't believe in the Imam, believe him to be the rightful successor of the people, do not believe in the Hadees of Gadeer in letter and spirit, then I think it is pointless to argue with him about the Duats , Daim ul Islam and bohra doctrine. It would only result in a pointless mud slinging match, with no winner.

[Udaipuri]

Abdes,
I've never seen you guys using Daim ul Islam and Bohra doctrine to advance the cause of justice or of the poor or of the weak and needy. You have used this doctrine to defend and protect the corrupt dai and his decadent dawat. Apart from defending the indefensible how else is this great Bohra ilm being used? Please answer this.
It is evident that this forum has had an impact. The kothar has taken all the reformist grievances and have schooled these abdes to respond from the “sources”, as if sources alone – independent of morality and ethics - can rule on a matter at hand. And this is what the Jamia system is all about, to provide context-less knowledge with a single agenda and produce Daim quoting clones like you who are pressed into services of 1) fooling the hapless and clueless Bohras and 2) defend the secretive cult of the dai and his family.
You abdes are no better than intellectual prostitutes. All your knowledge of the “sources” does not impress anyone, especially if those sources are quoted to defend the violations of the Quran and Sunnah.

[ghulam muhammed]

Each of the 3 mentioned all follow a different belief, thus each of their Tafseers will take you to what they think. Causing all confusion.

Islam-Shia-Ithna Ashari-Jafferi-Ismaili-Fatimid-Bohra-Sulemani bohra-sunni bohra-Alvi bohra-48 bohra-dawoodi bohras....... And you talk about CONFUSION !!!!!!

[Adam]

@gulam
What a senseless comment. You just named a few sects of Shiism, ofcourse there's confusion between them! Each followed their own person, got confused and went astray! That is exactly what I'm telling ANAJMI. From the sources he refers to, How does he know who's correct, did the Prophet take that mans name saying to ask him?
According to the DBs, we follow the Imams and Dais under the guidance of the Prophet through Mowlana ALI AS. And these sects were formed by not following the correct system

[anajmi]

How can one make an even more senseless comment in response to another apparent senseless comment? Go attend the Dawoodi Bohra sabak with Adam. They teach you how to get rid of your common sense.

From the sources he refers to, How does he know who's correct, did the Prophet take that mans name saying to ask him?

Did the prophet (saw) take the name of your Dai?

According to the DBs, we follow the Imams and Dais under the guidance of the Prophet through Mowlana ALI AS. And these sects were formed by not following the correct system

Did Imam Ali take the name of your Dai? We even know that your Dai is not correct because of his unIslamic practices and still like a moron you follow him.
I mean seriously man. You seem to be more educated than profastian but are even more stupid than him!!

[Al Zulfiqar]

And these sects were formed by not following the correct system

and the correct system is

1. to fleece the slaves of syedna until they are left with only a torn chaddi, are forced to beg and humiliate themselves while singing ghanu jeevo and sajda tujhe wajib hai
2. to make the slaves do sajda to syedna and sing ghanu jeevo and sajda tujhe wajib hai
3. to make the slaves wear uniforms and keep long junglee beards and form regiments to march in celebrations on syedna's birthdays singing ghanu jeevo and sajda tujhe wajib hai
4. to praise syedna's prowess in hunting down and murdering wild animals from endangered species and then singing ghanu jeevo and sajda tujhe wajib hai
5. to ignore syedna's deliberate secrecy over all mention of his mother while observing his wife's urus and singing ghanu jeevo and sajda tujhe wajib hai
6. befriending goondas, tyrants, crooks and politicians, felicitating them and showing movies in the markaz about meetings with such persons of ill-repute, while singing ghanu jeevo and sajda tujhe wajib hai
7. saying laanats on all those who dare to question the syedna and his family's unislamic and arrogant behaviour and later singing ghanu jeevo and sajda tujhe wajib hai
8. smuggling currency, doing money laundering, getting blacklisted from several countries, being the focus of 2 independent judicial commissions who found the syedna guilty of intimidation, extortion, bullying and spreading terror in his community etc, but all this is whitewashed when syedna asks his slaves to sing ghanu jeevo and sajda tujhe wajib hai
9. syedna acting contrary to the prophet's and ali's behaviour of honesty, transparency and integrity in being accountable to his community, and instead making his followers mindlessly sing ghanu jeevo and sajda tujhe wajib hai

this is the correct system!

[Adam]

I'm talking to tunnel visioned fool like ANAJMI, even then he doesn't read correctly.

According to the DBs, we follow the Imams and Dais under the guidance of the Prophet through Mowlana ALI AS. And these sects were formed by not followingthe correct system

The Prophet named who to follow, Imam ALI, he then named who to follow, Imam hasan...... And it continues like that till our Dai.

Now coming back to my question,how does your Imam of the Mosque justify himself? How do you know he's right?
correct system

[anajmi]

Actually, Imam Hassan named Muawiyah and asked Muawiyah to name Imam Hussain which he didn't.

The Imam's of my mosque can trace back their teachers directly to prophet (saw). Along with Hazrat Ali, the prophet (saw) taught to hundreds of sahabas, these sahabas then had their own students and these students then had their own students. So you see, there are a lot of Ulema today who can trace their teachings directly to the prophet Muhammad (saw). And a lot of these are simple folks who have devoted their lives to the religion of Islam. They do not force people to pay them money if you go to them with a question and they do not force you to give them zakat. This proves that these are the people who got the true message of the prophet (saw). Your Dai is a corrupt human being who lives on zakat funds of his worshippers and makes them perform sajda to him and sing sajda tujhe wajib hai - Astagfirullah. A despicable act indeed.

[Al Zulfiqar]

adam,

the promoter and propagandist of the 'correct system'.. have i outlined your 'correct system' above correctly?

[Adam]

@anajmi- I'm really happy for you, that you've found your right people. And you ll never have doubts and everything will be clarfied to you by these great Imams of the Masjid
.


Zulfaqar, state your beliefs first, and we can start afresh and make it much more interesting

[anajmi]

Thank you Adam. I am going to keep pointing out the error of your ways till one day I am also happy for you.

[Al Zulfiqar]

adam,

its already very interesting when you run with your green tail between your green cheeks!

first let me know if the 'correct system' i have outlined above is correct in the context of your 'dawoodibohraism' beliefs going back to nabi adam, then we can talk about your knowledge of arabic and other diversionary subjects...

[Adam]

Zulfaqar, state your beliefs IN ISLAM first, and we can start afresh and make it much more interesting

[Al Zulfiqar]

first let me know if the 'correct system' i have outlined above is correct in the context of your 'dawoodibohraism' beliefs going back to nabi adam, then we can talk about your knowledge of arabic and other diversionary subjects...

[ghulam muhammed]

@gulam

What a senseless comment. You just named a few sects of Shiism, ofcourse there's confusion between them! Each followed their own person, got confused and went astray! That is exactly what I'm telling

Thats exactly what even I have been saying but as anajmi says, one needs commonsense to understand even the basics.