It has always bothered me, being a Shia, why we always curse the companions of the Prophet (PBUH). Especially so when the Prophet married 2 of his daughters to Utman and married the daughter of AbuBakr. This would imply that he was surrounded by hypocrites and did nothing to make other people aware of this fact.
Also it is said that the daughter of the Prophet (PBUH) was mistreated by the companions to the extent that she had a miscarrige. I find it extremely hard to believe that Hazrat Ali, one of the most courageous persons in the Islamic history just stood and did nothing to prevent his wife to be mistreated.
Can someone from the Shia/Bohra sect explain.
Regards and salams
Prophet's (PBUH) companions
Re: Prophet's (PBUH) companions
First, let us define what we mean by "companions". To many Sunnis a companion is simply someone who came in contact with the Prophet. To the Shia, a true companion is someone who history has shown to be loyal to the Prophet.
There are many instances during the lifetime of the Prophet where these people have been censured. In Bukhari (9:92:405) on one occasion Abu Bakr and Umar raised their voices in the presence of the Prophet to the extent that verse 49:2-3 was revealed: "...do not raise your voices above the voice of the Prophet nor address him the way you do each other lest your deeds be in vain and you perceive not". There are many such examples, I won't go into each one of them as they have been detailed in many books zillions of times but I can provide you links if you want.
However, the Shia position is primarily due to what happened AFTER the prophet's death, especially their usurping the caliphate. The mistreatment of Fatima by Umar is actually recorded in Sunni books: *When Umar came to the door of the house of Fatimah, he said: "By Allah, I shall burn down (the house) over you unless you come out and give the oath of allegiance (to Abu Bakr)."* [History of Tabari (Arabic), v1, pp 1118-1120].
I suggest you read chapter 4 of this:
http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/
and this:
http://al-islam.org/ask/5.html
Especially so when the Prophet married 2 of his daughters to Utman and married the daughter of AbuBakr.
It is not certain that they were the Prophet's daughters who married Uthman. Some historians say they were daughters from Khadijah's previous marriage. In any case they were previously married to Abu Lahab's sons - does that mean Abu Lahab and his sons held a special status with the Prophet? No. Similarly who the Prophet married in his wisest judgement, and who the others married did not change the fact of what they did after the Prophet's death. It is also unbelievable that Aisha being a wife of the Prophet declared war on Ali - but it happened.
This would imply that he was surrounded by hypocrites
There were hypocrites among Muslims - those who killed others, disobeyed his commands, ran away from battles, did not trust him, etc. There were those who never quite shook off their pagan heritage and others such as Muawiya and the Ummayads who adopted Islam outwardly purely for political gain. Not sure if he was "surrounded" by them, but they certainly did exist.
and did nothing to make other people aware of this fact.
As explained, all these incidents are recorded in history, but they were always given another chance to reform. Here is a one hadith in Sunni books that shows the Prophet knew what his companions would do after his death: "Some men from my companions will come to my Lake-Fount and they will be driven away from it, and I will say, 'O Lord, my companions!' It will be said, 'You have no knowledge of what they innovated after you left: they turned apostate as renegades (reverted from Islam).' " (Bukhari 8.586).
There are many instances during the lifetime of the Prophet where these people have been censured. In Bukhari (9:92:405) on one occasion Abu Bakr and Umar raised their voices in the presence of the Prophet to the extent that verse 49:2-3 was revealed: "...do not raise your voices above the voice of the Prophet nor address him the way you do each other lest your deeds be in vain and you perceive not". There are many such examples, I won't go into each one of them as they have been detailed in many books zillions of times but I can provide you links if you want.
However, the Shia position is primarily due to what happened AFTER the prophet's death, especially their usurping the caliphate. The mistreatment of Fatima by Umar is actually recorded in Sunni books: *When Umar came to the door of the house of Fatimah, he said: "By Allah, I shall burn down (the house) over you unless you come out and give the oath of allegiance (to Abu Bakr)."* [History of Tabari (Arabic), v1, pp 1118-1120].
I suggest you read chapter 4 of this:
http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/
and this:
http://al-islam.org/ask/5.html
Especially so when the Prophet married 2 of his daughters to Utman and married the daughter of AbuBakr.
It is not certain that they were the Prophet's daughters who married Uthman. Some historians say they were daughters from Khadijah's previous marriage. In any case they were previously married to Abu Lahab's sons - does that mean Abu Lahab and his sons held a special status with the Prophet? No. Similarly who the Prophet married in his wisest judgement, and who the others married did not change the fact of what they did after the Prophet's death. It is also unbelievable that Aisha being a wife of the Prophet declared war on Ali - but it happened.
This would imply that he was surrounded by hypocrites
There were hypocrites among Muslims - those who killed others, disobeyed his commands, ran away from battles, did not trust him, etc. There were those who never quite shook off their pagan heritage and others such as Muawiya and the Ummayads who adopted Islam outwardly purely for political gain. Not sure if he was "surrounded" by them, but they certainly did exist.
and did nothing to make other people aware of this fact.
As explained, all these incidents are recorded in history, but they were always given another chance to reform. Here is a one hadith in Sunni books that shows the Prophet knew what his companions would do after his death: "Some men from my companions will come to my Lake-Fount and they will be driven away from it, and I will say, 'O Lord, my companions!' It will be said, 'You have no knowledge of what they innovated after you left: they turned apostate as renegades (reverted from Islam).' " (Bukhari 8.586).
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Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
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Re: Prophet's (PBUH) companions
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I suggest you read views of Main stream Islam on the subject you braught up. There is plenty of material available.
Please do not forget that people who are being cursed received promise of Jaanh from prophet duriong lifetime. Also these people are dead and no amount of cursing will make difference in their ultimate fate. They will pay for their deeds.
For mainstreasm rejoinder following links will help.
HOW TO APPROACH THE SHIA BROTHERS/SISTERS -
A STRAIGHT FORWARD LOGIC INSTEAD OF A NEVER ENDING DEBATE
HTTP://WWW.ALLAAHUAKBAR.NET/SHIITES/HOW ... ROTHER.HTM
QURAN VS. SHIA!
http://www.allaahuakbar.net/shiites/quran_vs_shia.htm
THE QURAN AND THE IMAMAH
http://www.allaahuakbar.net/shiites/qur ... imamah.htm
Wasalaam
.
I suggest you read views of Main stream Islam on the subject you braught up. There is plenty of material available.
Please do not forget that people who are being cursed received promise of Jaanh from prophet duriong lifetime. Also these people are dead and no amount of cursing will make difference in their ultimate fate. They will pay for their deeds.
For mainstreasm rejoinder following links will help.
HOW TO APPROACH THE SHIA BROTHERS/SISTERS -
A STRAIGHT FORWARD LOGIC INSTEAD OF A NEVER ENDING DEBATE
HTTP://WWW.ALLAAHUAKBAR.NET/SHIITES/HOW ... ROTHER.HTM
QURAN VS. SHIA!
http://www.allaahuakbar.net/shiites/quran_vs_shia.htm
THE QURAN AND THE IMAMAH
http://www.allaahuakbar.net/shiites/qur ... imamah.htm
Wasalaam
.
Re: Prophet's (PBUH) companions
What appears ironical is that while cursing is not going to make any difference to the dead, why invoke salaams and salawaaats on Prophets and radiullah on others? After all, all these people are dead too!
Practice of cursing the Khulafa and enemies of Ahl Bayt, especially during the Muharram majaalis, says more about those cursing than those being cursed. The ritual is meaningless because most are in emotional grip of sympathy for Ahl Bayt and in no way exhibit the negative emotion of hate. It is time to dispense with cursing. Cursing is not sweet and Quran urges sweetness of tongue.
Practice of cursing the Khulafa and enemies of Ahl Bayt, especially during the Muharram majaalis, says more about those cursing than those being cursed. The ritual is meaningless because most are in emotional grip of sympathy for Ahl Bayt and in no way exhibit the negative emotion of hate. It is time to dispense with cursing. Cursing is not sweet and Quran urges sweetness of tongue.
Re: Prophet's (PBUH) companions
Porus,
you've brought a significant point. You've asked what is point of muslims say salams and blessings upons the dead? Well, its because they are only physically dead...not spirtually. Thus it is the same with cursing the dead. It would effect the spirt in the same manner a blessing would effect the spirt.
This unfortunately is what most muslims who argue about this don't understand.
And then you say that we should eliminate cursing and sweetened our tongue with the Quran. However, you forget that in reciting the Quran...we curse many persons written in the Quran while reciting. Should we ignore those ayats and surahs?
you've brought a significant point. You've asked what is point of muslims say salams and blessings upons the dead? Well, its because they are only physically dead...not spirtually. Thus it is the same with cursing the dead. It would effect the spirt in the same manner a blessing would effect the spirt.
This unfortunately is what most muslims who argue about this don't understand.
And then you say that we should eliminate cursing and sweetened our tongue with the Quran. However, you forget that in reciting the Quran...we curse many persons written in the Quran while reciting. Should we ignore those ayats and surahs?
Re: Prophet's (PBUH) companions
Quran (33:56) commands people to invoke peace and blessings and doorood on Nabi. So, it is clearly appropriate. Invoking salaams and salawaat and radiullah on others is, imo, ok because it is a form of prayer for these people.Originally posted by hur:
And then you say that we should eliminate cursing and sweetened our tongue with the Quran. However, you forget that in reciting the Quran...we curse many persons written in the Quran while reciting. Should we ignore those ayats and surahs?[/QB]
If you read Quran, only Allah invokes laanat on kafirs. Allah has not commanded people to do so.
One should strive to eliminate abusive language in all circumstances and especially in gatherings for holy occassions. Now, doesn't both Quran and Sayenda say the same thing?
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Muslim First
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- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Prophet's (PBUH) companions
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Cursing;
Abu Darda RA narrated that The Prophet SAW Said:
When a person curses someone, the curse ascends heaven, where all gates are closed against it. Then it descends to earth and turns right and left. After finding no exit, it finds the one who has been cursed and attaches itself to him if he deserves it; but if he doesn’t, it returns to the one who uttered it. (Related by Abu Dawud)
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Cursing;
Abu Darda RA narrated that The Prophet SAW Said:
When a person curses someone, the curse ascends heaven, where all gates are closed against it. Then it descends to earth and turns right and left. After finding no exit, it finds the one who has been cursed and attaches itself to him if he deserves it; but if he doesn’t, it returns to the one who uttered it. (Related by Abu Dawud)
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Re: Prophet's (PBUH) companions
If you read Quran, only Allah invokes laanat on kafirs. Allah has not commanded people to do so.
Porus, what about: "..on them (rests) the curse of God, of His angels, and of all mankind" -3/87 and also 2/161?
Porus, what about: "..on them (rests) the curse of God, of His angels, and of all mankind" -3/87 and also 2/161?
Re: Prophet's (PBUH) companions
Do you not curse Shaytan before even reading the Quran?
And note MuslimFirst...if the curse isn't deserved..then it returned.
And note MuslimFirst...if the curse isn't deserved..then it returned.
Re: Prophet's (PBUH) companions
The following verses mention Allh's curse:
2:89, 2:161, 3:61, 3:87, 7:44 11:18, 24:7.
Only 3:61 comes close to stating when a human, in this case Nabi himself, should curse. And then, only after "full knowledge" has come to him.
In every other case, Allah himself says that there is a curse on kafirs and those who lie.
If I have missed a verse commandig humans to curse, please let us know. Thanks.
2:89, 2:161, 3:61, 3:87, 7:44 11:18, 24:7.
Only 3:61 comes close to stating when a human, in this case Nabi himself, should curse. And then, only after "full knowledge" has come to him.
In every other case, Allah himself says that there is a curse on kafirs and those who lie.
If I have missed a verse commandig humans to curse, please let us know. Thanks.
Re: Prophet's (PBUH) companions
Shaytaanir rajeem is a phrase from Quran. Allah has cursed him and he is not human.Originally posted by hur:
Do you not curse Shaytan before even reading the Quran?
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Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
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Re: Prophet's (PBUH) companions
Who is to know wether they deserved to be cursed or not. Only Allah knows....if the curse isn't deserved..then it returned.
I believe cursing is negative activity and does you no good.
Please show me where in Quran or Hadeeth of Prophet it says that if you curse then you gain Sawab.
Wasalaam
.
Re: Prophet's (PBUH) companions
Porus,
actually saying "ahzubillah.." is sunnah and it YOU that is cursing Shaytan. Why does it matter that he was a fallen angel or not...he has a spirit.
Secondly reference Surah Baqara:
[159] Those who conceal the Clear (Signs) We have sent down, and the Guidance, after we have made it clear for the People in the Book, on them shall be Allah's curse, and the curse of those entitled to curse.
[160] Except those who repent and make amends and openly declare (the Truth): to them I turn; for I am Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.
[161] Those who reject Faith, and die rejecting it, on them is Allah's curse, and the curse of angels, and of all mankind;
[162] They will abide therein: their penalty will not be lightened, nor will respite be their (lot).
Notice according to ayat 161...Allah, the angels, and all mankind shall curse those that reject Faith.
See Surah 111, al'Masad
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
[1] Perish the hands of the Father of Flame! perish he!
[2] No profit to him from all his wealth, and all his gains!
[3] Burnt soon will he be in a Fire of blazing Flame!
[4] His wife shall carry the (crackling) wood; As fuel!
[5] A twisted rope of palm-leaf fibre round her (own) neck!
This is a permenant curse on Abu Lahab in the Quran...and you are saying it first person. Notice other than the bismala..Allah's name is not referenced or mentioned.
actually saying "ahzubillah.." is sunnah and it YOU that is cursing Shaytan. Why does it matter that he was a fallen angel or not...he has a spirit.
Secondly reference Surah Baqara:
[159] Those who conceal the Clear (Signs) We have sent down, and the Guidance, after we have made it clear for the People in the Book, on them shall be Allah's curse, and the curse of those entitled to curse.
[160] Except those who repent and make amends and openly declare (the Truth): to them I turn; for I am Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.
[161] Those who reject Faith, and die rejecting it, on them is Allah's curse, and the curse of angels, and of all mankind;
[162] They will abide therein: their penalty will not be lightened, nor will respite be their (lot).
Notice according to ayat 161...Allah, the angels, and all mankind shall curse those that reject Faith.
See Surah 111, al'Masad
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
[1] Perish the hands of the Father of Flame! perish he!
[2] No profit to him from all his wealth, and all his gains!
[3] Burnt soon will he be in a Fire of blazing Flame!
[4] His wife shall carry the (crackling) wood; As fuel!
[5] A twisted rope of palm-leaf fibre round her (own) neck!
This is a permenant curse on Abu Lahab in the Quran...and you are saying it first person. Notice other than the bismala..Allah's name is not referenced or mentioned.
Re: Prophet's (PBUH) companions
HUr,
To be pedantic, we are not cursing Shaytan by invoking a'uzubillah. We are seeking refuge in Allah from Shaytan, the accursed. This adjective for Shaytan is from Allah. If you invoke laanat on Shaytan you might say "laanatullah ala Shaytan".
2:159 presents a fait accompli. Allah's curse and the curse of those "entitled to curse" is already on kafirs. Does Allah state who is entitled to curse? Not me. You?
2:161 also states a fait accompli. It does not state that mankind 'now' invoke curse on kafirs.
111.1 could be taken to be a curse on Abu Lahab. But it is Allah's speech and does not ask you to curse. OK, so you are cursing Abu Lahab while reciting it. But Allah does not ask you to curse him.
Why doesn't the Quran say something like this after the fashion of 33:56. "Allah and his angels curse the kuffar. O mankind, you too curse the kuffar" If you find an ayat like that in the Quran. please let us know.
To be pedantic, we are not cursing Shaytan by invoking a'uzubillah. We are seeking refuge in Allah from Shaytan, the accursed. This adjective for Shaytan is from Allah. If you invoke laanat on Shaytan you might say "laanatullah ala Shaytan".
2:159 presents a fait accompli. Allah's curse and the curse of those "entitled to curse" is already on kafirs. Does Allah state who is entitled to curse? Not me. You?
2:161 also states a fait accompli. It does not state that mankind 'now' invoke curse on kafirs.
111.1 could be taken to be a curse on Abu Lahab. But it is Allah's speech and does not ask you to curse. OK, so you are cursing Abu Lahab while reciting it. But Allah does not ask you to curse him.
Why doesn't the Quran say something like this after the fashion of 33:56. "Allah and his angels curse the kuffar. O mankind, you too curse the kuffar" If you find an ayat like that in the Quran. please let us know.
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Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Prophet's (PBUH) companions
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This is guidance for Main Stream Islam from Fiqh-us -Sunnah [4.76]
The
Prohibition
Against
Talking Ill
of the Dead
It is not permissible to talk ill of the deceased Muslims or to mention their evil deeds. This is based on Bukhari's report from 'Aishah that the Prophet, peace be upon him, said:
"Do not speak ill of the dead; they have seen the result of (the deeds) that they forwarded before them." Abu Daw'ud and Tirmidhi have transmitted, but with a weak chain of narrators, from Ibn ' Umar a similar hadith that the Prophet, peace be upon him, said, "Mention the good deeds of your dead and cover their evil deeds." As for those Muslims who openly do evil or indulge in illicit innovation, it is permissible to mention their evil deeds if some public good so requires and and as a warning to others in order to discourage anyone who might otherwise follow their bad example. If no such benefit is to be gained, then it is not permissible to mention anything evil about the deceased. Bukhari and Muslim reported that Anas said: "A funeral procession passed by and the people praised the deceased. The Prophet, peace be upon him, exclaimed, 'It is decided.' Then another funeral procession passed by and the people said some bad things about the deceased. The Prophet,peace be upon him, remarked, 'It is decided.' 'Umar asked: 'What is decided?' The Prophet, peace be upon him, answered, 'The one whom you praised is entitled to Paradise, and the one whom you described as bad is entitled to the Hell Fire. You are Allah's witnesses on earth'."
Cursing the dead disbelievers is permissible, because Allah, the Exalted, says: "Curses by the tongue of David and of Jesus, the son of Mary, were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected faith.''
Qur'an 5.78 Similarly we read in the Qur'an: "Perish the hands of the Father of Flame!'' Qur'an 111.1 Pharaoh and others like him have also been cursed in the Qur'an, besides the great curse of Allah about which we read: "Behold! the curse of Allah is on thosewho do wrong. Qur'an 11.18
.
This is guidance for Main Stream Islam from Fiqh-us -Sunnah [4.76]
The
Prohibition
Against
Talking Ill
of the Dead
It is not permissible to talk ill of the deceased Muslims or to mention their evil deeds. This is based on Bukhari's report from 'Aishah that the Prophet, peace be upon him, said:
"Do not speak ill of the dead; they have seen the result of (the deeds) that they forwarded before them." Abu Daw'ud and Tirmidhi have transmitted, but with a weak chain of narrators, from Ibn ' Umar a similar hadith that the Prophet, peace be upon him, said, "Mention the good deeds of your dead and cover their evil deeds." As for those Muslims who openly do evil or indulge in illicit innovation, it is permissible to mention their evil deeds if some public good so requires and and as a warning to others in order to discourage anyone who might otherwise follow their bad example. If no such benefit is to be gained, then it is not permissible to mention anything evil about the deceased. Bukhari and Muslim reported that Anas said: "A funeral procession passed by and the people praised the deceased. The Prophet, peace be upon him, exclaimed, 'It is decided.' Then another funeral procession passed by and the people said some bad things about the deceased. The Prophet,peace be upon him, remarked, 'It is decided.' 'Umar asked: 'What is decided?' The Prophet, peace be upon him, answered, 'The one whom you praised is entitled to Paradise, and the one whom you described as bad is entitled to the Hell Fire. You are Allah's witnesses on earth'."
Cursing the dead disbelievers is permissible, because Allah, the Exalted, says: "Curses by the tongue of David and of Jesus, the son of Mary, were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected faith.''
Qur'an 5.78 Similarly we read in the Qur'an: "Perish the hands of the Father of Flame!'' Qur'an 111.1 Pharaoh and others like him have also been cursed in the Qur'an, besides the great curse of Allah about which we read: "Behold! the curse of Allah is on thosewho do wrong. Qur'an 11.18
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Re: Prophet's (PBUH) companions
Porus,
unfortunately, your going in to symantics. The verse says all mankind...so infact it doesn't matter if your chosen or not.
unfortunately, your going in to symantics. The verse says all mankind...so infact it doesn't matter if your chosen or not.
Re: Prophet's (PBUH) companions
Muslimfirst,
I don't quite understand your post. It title say prohibition...yet the last to quotes say it is allowed? Did not Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Aisha, etc. oppose and fight the ahlul bayt...when the Prophet said not to even speak ill of them?
I don't quite understand your post. It title say prohibition...yet the last to quotes say it is allowed? Did not Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Aisha, etc. oppose and fight the ahlul bayt...when the Prophet said not to even speak ill of them?
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Muslim First
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Re: Prophet's (PBUH) companions
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Hur
I have copied this Fiqh-us-sunnah from 'Aalim' computer software.
As I understand it it prohibits Muslims from speaking ill of dead Muslims.
I am reposting last 2 quotes as follows:
Cursing the dead disbelievers is permissible, because Allah, the Exalted, says: "Curses by the tongue of David and of Jesus, the son of Mary, were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected faith.''
Qur'an 5.78 Similarly we read in the Qur'an: "Perish the hands of the Father of Flame!'' Qur'an 111.1 Pharaoh and others like him have also been cursed in the Qur'an, besides the great curse of Allah about which we read: "Behold! the curse of Allah is on thosewho do wrong. Qur'an 11.18
So last 2 Qoutes are for disbelievers
Wasalaam
.
Hur
I have copied this Fiqh-us-sunnah from 'Aalim' computer software.
As I understand it it prohibits Muslims from speaking ill of dead Muslims.
I am reposting last 2 quotes as follows:
Cursing the dead disbelievers is permissible, because Allah, the Exalted, says: "Curses by the tongue of David and of Jesus, the son of Mary, were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected faith.''
Qur'an 5.78 Similarly we read in the Qur'an: "Perish the hands of the Father of Flame!'' Qur'an 111.1 Pharaoh and others like him have also been cursed in the Qur'an, besides the great curse of Allah about which we read: "Behold! the curse of Allah is on thosewho do wrong. Qur'an 11.18
So last 2 Qoutes are for disbelievers
Yes there were disagreements and differences were settled. Ali RA gave pledge to Abu Bakr, forgave Aisha. All this is part of Islamic History, not part of Islam.Did not Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Aisha, etc. oppose and fight the ahlul bayt...when the Prophet said not to even speak ill of them?
Wasalaam
.
Re: Prophet's (PBUH) companions
<i>from Fiqh-us -Sunnah [4.76]
****************
Cursing the dead disbelievers is permissible, because Allah, the Exalted, says: "Curses by the tongue of David and of Jesus, the son of Mary, were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected faith.''
Qur'an 5.78 Similarly we read in the Qur'an: "Perish the hands of the Father of Flame!'' Qur'an 111.1 Pharaoh and others like him have also been cursed in the Qur'an, besides the great curse of Allah about which we read: "Behold! the curse of Allah is on thosewho do wrong. Qur'an 11.18
********** </i>
It is important to read 5.78 to mean that Jesus and David cursed the kafirs. That does not give carte-blanche to all and sundry to curse even the disbelievers. I disagree with the advice from the fiqh as-sunnah.
Let us follow the Prophet and say "It is done".
****************
Cursing the dead disbelievers is permissible, because Allah, the Exalted, says: "Curses by the tongue of David and of Jesus, the son of Mary, were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected faith.''
Qur'an 5.78 Similarly we read in the Qur'an: "Perish the hands of the Father of Flame!'' Qur'an 111.1 Pharaoh and others like him have also been cursed in the Qur'an, besides the great curse of Allah about which we read: "Behold! the curse of Allah is on thosewho do wrong. Qur'an 11.18
********** </i>
It is important to read 5.78 to mean that Jesus and David cursed the kafirs. That does not give carte-blanche to all and sundry to curse even the disbelievers. I disagree with the advice from the fiqh as-sunnah.
Let us follow the Prophet and say "It is done".
Re: Prophet's (PBUH) companions
MuslimFirst,
actually no...Ali didn't give bayah to any of the kaliphs. He did concede to them taking that position. Fatima never forgave Abu Bakr before she died. Maulana Ali didn't forgive Aisha, Talha, and Zubayr for leading a war against him...though he showed her more ikhlaq than she showed him.
Imam Hasan stepped down from the kaliph..though he never called Muwaiya kaliph nor gave him bayah. And you know what happened with Imam Husayn.
Porus,
If you say following the Prophet...then cursing is definitely allowed. Please do a search.
http://hadith.al-islam.com/bayan/displa ... eng&ID=849
actually no...Ali didn't give bayah to any of the kaliphs. He did concede to them taking that position. Fatima never forgave Abu Bakr before she died. Maulana Ali didn't forgive Aisha, Talha, and Zubayr for leading a war against him...though he showed her more ikhlaq than she showed him.
Imam Hasan stepped down from the kaliph..though he never called Muwaiya kaliph nor gave him bayah. And you know what happened with Imam Husayn.
Porus,
If you say following the Prophet...then cursing is definitely allowed. Please do a search.
http://hadith.al-islam.com/bayan/displa ... eng&ID=849
Re: Prophet's (PBUH) companions
Hur,
You are really scraping the bottom of the barrel to justify cursing some prominent Muslims, highly regarded by your Muslim brothers. Challenge to produce an ayat of Quran allowing cursing has not been answered, yet.
Translation of the hadith, imo, is incorrect. Please see the Arabic version. Laa'an here means to confirm the guilt of the parties who committed adultery. This is also, in Islamic Law, known as li'aan.
"fa laa'ana rasulullah, sallalahu alayhi wasallim, baynahuma" is the exact quote from Arabic version. In translation, "then the messenger of Allah saw, pronounced both of them guilty of adultery.
It means, imo, Rasul then confirmed the guilt of the parties. This is also clear from the context. Rasul asked them to wait until the child is born. The child resembled the adulterer.
No cursing here. I do not think. Rasullah is not asking anyone to curse.
You are really scraping the bottom of the barrel to justify cursing some prominent Muslims, highly regarded by your Muslim brothers. Challenge to produce an ayat of Quran allowing cursing has not been answered, yet.
Translation of the hadith, imo, is incorrect. Please see the Arabic version. Laa'an here means to confirm the guilt of the parties who committed adultery. This is also, in Islamic Law, known as li'aan.
"fa laa'ana rasulullah, sallalahu alayhi wasallim, baynahuma" is the exact quote from Arabic version. In translation, "then the messenger of Allah saw, pronounced both of them guilty of adultery.
It means, imo, Rasul then confirmed the guilt of the parties. This is also clear from the context. Rasul asked them to wait until the child is born. The child resembled the adulterer.
No cursing here. I do not think. Rasullah is not asking anyone to curse.
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Muslim First
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Re: Prophet's (PBUH) companions
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Hur
AS
I agree with BR. Porus that “ You are really scraping the bottom of the barrel to justify cursing some prominent Muslims, highly regarded by your Muslim brothers ”.
I believe cursing is negative activity and no good comes out of it. You really do not know weather your curse resulted in punishment of the cursed. You certainly do not get any brownie points (Thawab).
As far as History of Khilafat, main stream Islam has one version and minority has another. The fact is this that Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthaman were Rashidun Khalifas (legitimate or not) for many years before Ali RA came to power.
Here is what Qur’an describes GOD”S TRUE SERVENTS;
True servants of the Compassionate (Allah) are those who walk on the earth in humility and when the ignorant people address them, they say: "Peace;"
Who pass the night prostrating before their Rabb and standing in prayers?
Who say: "Our Rabb! Ward off the punishment of hell from us, for its punishment is atrocious
Certainly it is an evil abode and an evil resting place;"
Who, when they spend, are neither extravagant nor stingy, but keep the balance between those two extremes;
Who do not invoke any other god besides Allah, nor kill any soul which Allah has made sacred, except for a just cause, nor commit fornication - -.
[Quran 25:65-68, Interpreted translation by Malik]
If you still feel like cursing or feel that you are required to curse to be a good Muslim then please do so, but understand that majority of Muslims are offended by this.
Br. Porus;
Yes I agree with your sentiment. Enough cursing has been done and let’s not do more.
Wasalaam
.
Hur
AS
I agree with BR. Porus that “ You are really scraping the bottom of the barrel to justify cursing some prominent Muslims, highly regarded by your Muslim brothers ”.
I believe cursing is negative activity and no good comes out of it. You really do not know weather your curse resulted in punishment of the cursed. You certainly do not get any brownie points (Thawab).
As far as History of Khilafat, main stream Islam has one version and minority has another. The fact is this that Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthaman were Rashidun Khalifas (legitimate or not) for many years before Ali RA came to power.
Here is what Qur’an describes GOD”S TRUE SERVENTS;
True servants of the Compassionate (Allah) are those who walk on the earth in humility and when the ignorant people address them, they say: "Peace;"
Who pass the night prostrating before their Rabb and standing in prayers?
Who say: "Our Rabb! Ward off the punishment of hell from us, for its punishment is atrocious
Certainly it is an evil abode and an evil resting place;"
Who, when they spend, are neither extravagant nor stingy, but keep the balance between those two extremes;
Who do not invoke any other god besides Allah, nor kill any soul which Allah has made sacred, except for a just cause, nor commit fornication - -.
[Quran 25:65-68, Interpreted translation by Malik]
If you still feel like cursing or feel that you are required to curse to be a good Muslim then please do so, but understand that majority of Muslims are offended by this.
Br. Porus;
Yes I agree with your sentiment. Enough cursing has been done and let’s not do more.
Wasalaam
.
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Muslim First
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Re: Prophet's (PBUH) companions
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Curse
FEw Ahadeeth
From Sunan of Abu-Dawud
No. 2406
Narrated AbuDharr
If anyone says in the morning: "O Allah! whatever oath I take, whatever word I speak, and whatever vow I take, Thine will precedes all that: whatever Thou willeth, occurs, and whatever Thou dost not will, dost not occur. O Allah! Pardon me and disregard me for it. O Allah! Whomsoever Thou sendest thine blessing, to him my blessing is due, and whomsoever thou cursest, to him my curse is due, “. Exemption from it will be granted to him that day.
No. 2304
Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin
Something of her was stolen, and she began to curse him (i.e. the thief). The Apostle of
Allah (peace be upon him) said to her: Do not lessen his sin.
No. 2302
Narrated Samurah ibn Jundub
The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: Do not invoke Allah's curse, Allah's anger, or Hell.
From Shahih Muslim Hadeeth
No.861
Narrated Awf ibn Malik
The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: The best of your rulers are those whom you love and who love you, who invoke God's blessings upon you and you invoke His blessings upon them. And the worst of your rulers are those whom you hate and who hate you and whom you curse and who curse you. It was asked (by those present):
Shouldn't we overthrow them with the help of the sword? He said: No, as long as they establish prayer among you. If you then find anything detestable in them, you should hate their administration, but do not withdraw yourselves from their obedience.
No.1192
Narrated AbuHurayrah
It was said to Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) Invoke curse upon the polytheists, whereupon he said: I have not been sent as the invoker of curse, but "I have been sent as mercy."
No.1191
Narrated AbudDarda
When it was night AbdulMalik got up and called for the servant. It seemed as if he (the servant) was late (in responding to his call), so he (AbdulMalik) invoked curse upon him, and when it was morning Umm Darda' said to him: I heard you cursing your servant during the night when you called him, and she said: I heard AbudDarda' as saying that Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) said: The invoker of curse would neither be intercessor nor witness on the Day of Resurrection.
No.1190
Narrated AbuHurayrah
Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) said: It does not seem proper for Siddiq that he should be an invoker of curse. This hadith has been narrated on the authority of AbuKurayb with the same chain of transmitters.
From Tirmidhi.
No.544
Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud
The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: A believer does not taunt, curse, abuse or talk indecently.
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Curse
FEw Ahadeeth
From Sunan of Abu-Dawud
No. 2406
Narrated AbuDharr
If anyone says in the morning: "O Allah! whatever oath I take, whatever word I speak, and whatever vow I take, Thine will precedes all that: whatever Thou willeth, occurs, and whatever Thou dost not will, dost not occur. O Allah! Pardon me and disregard me for it. O Allah! Whomsoever Thou sendest thine blessing, to him my blessing is due, and whomsoever thou cursest, to him my curse is due, “. Exemption from it will be granted to him that day.
No. 2304
Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin
Something of her was stolen, and she began to curse him (i.e. the thief). The Apostle of
Allah (peace be upon him) said to her: Do not lessen his sin.
No. 2302
Narrated Samurah ibn Jundub
The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: Do not invoke Allah's curse, Allah's anger, or Hell.
From Shahih Muslim Hadeeth
No.861
Narrated Awf ibn Malik
The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: The best of your rulers are those whom you love and who love you, who invoke God's blessings upon you and you invoke His blessings upon them. And the worst of your rulers are those whom you hate and who hate you and whom you curse and who curse you. It was asked (by those present):
Shouldn't we overthrow them with the help of the sword? He said: No, as long as they establish prayer among you. If you then find anything detestable in them, you should hate their administration, but do not withdraw yourselves from their obedience.
No.1192
Narrated AbuHurayrah
It was said to Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) Invoke curse upon the polytheists, whereupon he said: I have not been sent as the invoker of curse, but "I have been sent as mercy."
No.1191
Narrated AbudDarda
When it was night AbdulMalik got up and called for the servant. It seemed as if he (the servant) was late (in responding to his call), so he (AbdulMalik) invoked curse upon him, and when it was morning Umm Darda' said to him: I heard you cursing your servant during the night when you called him, and she said: I heard AbudDarda' as saying that Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) said: The invoker of curse would neither be intercessor nor witness on the Day of Resurrection.
No.1190
Narrated AbuHurayrah
Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) said: It does not seem proper for Siddiq that he should be an invoker of curse. This hadith has been narrated on the authority of AbuKurayb with the same chain of transmitters.
From Tirmidhi.
No.544
Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud
The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: A believer does not taunt, curse, abuse or talk indecently.
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Re: Prophet's (PBUH) companions
Porus and MuslimFirst,
The problem with your argument is your trying to justify your opinion with your opinion of something.
You wrote "2:161 also states a fait accompli. It does not state that mankind 'now' invoke curse on kafirs"
No, it says that those that rejected faith, and those who die rejecting it..the curse of Allah, angels and all mankind will be on them. It is implied this will continued...not that it just stops at a certain point.
In this sense..the faithful are separating themselves from those that reject faith.
Also, regarding the translation of the hadith..the translation is actually correct. It is the intensification of the use of the word that is limited. Li'an comes from the same meaning, i.e. separation because of guilt (which is the same as the intention of a curse).
Sahih Muslim, 4706
Abu Hurairah reported:
Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: O Allah, I am a human being and for any person among Muslims upon whom I hurl malediction or invoke a curse (la'anat) or lashed him please make it a source of purity (zakat) and mercy (rahmat).
http://hadith.al-islam.com/bayan/displa ... ng&ID=1502
In this hadith the Prophet considers it a mercy and purity on the Muslims whom he curse...for by doing so it may cleanse them. I would like to remind you the those that shiahs curse were munafiqs and kafirs.
And regarding what the majority muslims believe...for 80-100 yrs during the life and after the death of Maulana Ali...the majority muslims cursed his name in the Ju'mah khutbahs. Imam Husayn was called a kafir by Yazid and the army that attacked him. Actually, currently the majority muslims scholars say that although he was wrongly killed by Yazid's army, Imam Husayn was wrong in fighting against the kaliph!
The problem with your argument is your trying to justify your opinion with your opinion of something.
You wrote "2:161 also states a fait accompli. It does not state that mankind 'now' invoke curse on kafirs"
No, it says that those that rejected faith, and those who die rejecting it..the curse of Allah, angels and all mankind will be on them. It is implied this will continued...not that it just stops at a certain point.
In this sense..the faithful are separating themselves from those that reject faith.
Also, regarding the translation of the hadith..the translation is actually correct. It is the intensification of the use of the word that is limited. Li'an comes from the same meaning, i.e. separation because of guilt (which is the same as the intention of a curse).
Sahih Muslim, 4706
Abu Hurairah reported:
Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: O Allah, I am a human being and for any person among Muslims upon whom I hurl malediction or invoke a curse (la'anat) or lashed him please make it a source of purity (zakat) and mercy (rahmat).
http://hadith.al-islam.com/bayan/displa ... ng&ID=1502
In this hadith the Prophet considers it a mercy and purity on the Muslims whom he curse...for by doing so it may cleanse them. I would like to remind you the those that shiahs curse were munafiqs and kafirs.
And regarding what the majority muslims believe...for 80-100 yrs during the life and after the death of Maulana Ali...the majority muslims cursed his name in the Ju'mah khutbahs. Imam Husayn was called a kafir by Yazid and the army that attacked him. Actually, currently the majority muslims scholars say that although he was wrongly killed by Yazid's army, Imam Husayn was wrong in fighting against the kaliph!
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khan19922001
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Re: Prophet's (PBUH) companions
I think we have spoken enough on the cursing issue.
What about the the second matter referred to in first post, about Bibi Fatima being mistreated by Omar. Why did Hazrat Ali not do anything to stop this mistreatment.
Regards
What about the the second matter referred to in first post, about Bibi Fatima being mistreated by Omar. Why did Hazrat Ali not do anything to stop this mistreatment.
Regards
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Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
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Re: Prophet's (PBUH) companions
.
Br. Khan
AS
You said
Wasalaam
.
Br. Khan
AS
You said
Now that you read pro and con what is your personal opinion on cursing?I think we have spoken enough on the cursing issue.
Wasalaam
.
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khan19922001
- Posts: 153
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Re: Prophet's (PBUH) companions
Brother Muslim First
My personal opinion is that there is no value of cursing the dead for whatever reason. We all have faults and therefore are in position to curse the Sahabah of the the Prophet(PBUH).
That's my personal opinion which many would not agree with.
My personal opinion is that there is no value of cursing the dead for whatever reason. We all have faults and therefore are in position to curse the Sahabah of the the Prophet(PBUH).
That's my personal opinion which many would not agree with.
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Madmachine
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:01 am
Re: Prophet's (PBUH) companions
I would second Khan on this. No matter how good or bad these people (first three khulafas) were, they are dead now.
Also cursing them or praising them doesnot have anything to do with Islam that we have to follow, so why contiminate our tongues by saying bad things about poeple we have never seen, and its Allah (swt) who decides who's good or bad, so let Him take care of this.
Wa'salam
Also cursing them or praising them doesnot have anything to do with Islam that we have to follow, so why contiminate our tongues by saying bad things about poeple we have never seen, and its Allah (swt) who decides who's good or bad, so let Him take care of this.
Wa'salam
Re: Prophet's (PBUH) companions
To all,
I would just add as a final statement...if it shows no effect to curse ones who has offended and/or harmed the ahlul bayt..then there is also no need to praise the ahlul bayt...or anyone for that matter...because it has no effect in the same manner.
Obviously, I believe this idea goes against Quran and sunnah, but it seem we have are own opinions and want to stick to them. No dialog needed.
Thanks for the time.
I would just add as a final statement...if it shows no effect to curse ones who has offended and/or harmed the ahlul bayt..then there is also no need to praise the ahlul bayt...or anyone for that matter...because it has no effect in the same manner.
Obviously, I believe this idea goes against Quran and sunnah, but it seem we have are own opinions and want to stick to them. No dialog needed.
Thanks for the time.
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khan19922001
- Posts: 153
- Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2003 5:01 am
Re: Prophet's (PBUH) companions
Dear Brother Qiyam
We have all read Brother Hur's justfication for cursing, which I believe you agree with. He has interpreted some Ayah's of the Quran as jurtifying the cursing process. That is his interpretation and I am not going to get into an argument with that. You wrote in your mail that with all the things being said it appears that there is no benefit of prasing the Ahle Bayt, which according to you in not in accordance with the Quran and Sunnah.
Could you please let me know where in the Quran the praising of the Ahle Bayt is recommended.
Regards and Salams
We have all read Brother Hur's justfication for cursing, which I believe you agree with. He has interpreted some Ayah's of the Quran as jurtifying the cursing process. That is his interpretation and I am not going to get into an argument with that. You wrote in your mail that with all the things being said it appears that there is no benefit of prasing the Ahle Bayt, which according to you in not in accordance with the Quran and Sunnah.
Could you please let me know where in the Quran the praising of the Ahle Bayt is recommended.
Regards and Salams