Qutbi Bohras

[shabbir4u]

Saifuddin,
Are you leaning towards Mazoon saheb or you are creating this Drama.Qutbi bohra came to your site first.No one know who is Qutbi Bohra is? Its was Progressive Dawoodi bohra who came with this issuse and this Drama.Pls leave us alone MIND YOUR OWN BUSNIESS LOOK AFTER YOUR HEALTH.
Saifuddin Stand in front of mirror and ask your self Why you created this fake rmour of new Qutbi Bohra sect. See your age is time to do Allah Allah...not remour.

[Mkenya]

Kothar in the last three decades has instituted and gradually implemented a very strong-handed strategy to subjugate Bohras. Today its grip on the community is total and irreversible. From strictly following a dress code, donning a rida, to wearing a beard, tiffin distribution, collections of sabil, wajebaat, salaam, etc. are fully entrenched. Foresight was used by Kothar to follow strategies and gradually install Shahzadas and the cream of Sheikhs in cities and towns where the number of effluent Bohras was markedly higher. Bohras from the Indian sub-continent, the Middle East, parts of Africa and elsewhere migrated to the industrialized countries as Western Europe, the US, Canada and Australia. Kothar saw this large pool of well-to-do, educated and monied Bohras as a windfall resource to tap into. As is normal for any ethnic migration to foreign lands they wanted to preserve and hold fast on to their traditions, cultures, etc. Places of congregation were built and they were large and imposing. Kothar saw this with glee. Kothar responded to the pleas from jamaats for installing Shahzadas or top-notch Sheikhs to conduct their affairs. Initial enthusiasm was so overwhelming that most such centres were assigned to Shahzadas. They had direct link with Kothar and were very manipulative. Surrounding themselves with committees of local die-hards they started amassing wealth. This then is the todays scenario.

Kothar from top to bottom controls everything. The delegation of various important responsibilties and controls are among the inner circle Caucous of Shahzadas. Their retinue consists of extended families, children, grandchildren, in-laws and out-laws. The wages of the so-called caretakers at hundreds of Ziarat places have to be paid. The total payroll must be in the millions. Let us not forget the lavish lifestyles, expensive travels, greasing of political big-wheels, and so on. For any organization all these expenses have to be met. Let us keep in mind that these Shahzadas have never worked or have been employed. And they live off the backs of the Bohras through forcible and unreasonably outrageous collection of all kinds of obligations, zakat, salaam, ziafat, marriage and mishap ceremonies, and so on.

Debates are raging around Bohra circles about an impending spilt is a lot of speculation. The way it should be seen is that there are two aspects to the power struggle. First is the technicalities and procedural aspect of Nus, and second is the control of Kothar's massive wealth. It is not only monies but pricey real estate, rental and ghalla incomes.

Kothar these days is playing diversionary tactics. It has its chess pieces in place. What one should be sure of is that when Syedna Burhanudin Saheb passes away there will be mass hysteria, mourning, etc. The burial followed by series of rituals, jamans, ziarat, etc. will swing into place at the orchestration of Kothar. The preoccupation of all that will virtually wipe out all memories of the present state of division. In the previous years the proclamation of Nus followed a laid down procedure. There were a few dubious diversions and sometimes Bohras split. These splits were few and those that did leave did not have a large following.

70% of the Bohra community consists of loyal followers of the Dai. They are so devout that his every word and action is adhered to. 25% are people
just give lip service; in that they pay their dues, attend most jamaat functions to be seen, have wealth of gossip and display their displeasure of Kothar whenever an occasion presents itself. They are the camouflaged dissidents who are weaklings to voice their opinion in public. If only these people would stop attending the events the resident Shahzadas or Sheikhs will notice their absence. Would that happen? No! As things stand now mosques and markaz are full and it is assumed that these are true Mohibs of Dai and Kothar. The balance of 5% are the reformists who are doing a tremendous job of keeping each other and the Bohras aware of issues, invite debates and expose transgressions of Kothar.

Kothar has its fingers on the pulse of what is happening in the community. It has not reached this commanding position by sheer luck. Kothar fears the fact that Mazoon has the distinct hereditary upper hand and clout. If he wants to he can bring that weight to bear on Kothar. If he forces the issue then all will be losers. Let us not forget Yusufbhai Saheb Najmudin, a son of 51st Dai Syedna Taher Seifudin, a much-renowned strategist, disappeared, presumed murdered, mysteriously in Cairo. Obviously he ran afoul of Kothar. His name and fame have all been totally obliterated by Kothar. Incidentally he was the cunning architect of vilifying Bohra philanthropists in East Africa and brought about a massive restructuring of jamaats in favour of Kothar. Let us also not forget the overnight villification and expulsion of three very prominent Ulemas from Surat. They had obviously stumbled upon some incriminating evidence against Kothar and when they confronted Kothar their fate was sealed. The propaganda apparatus of Kothat swung into action to inform Bohras that for years the Ulemas in their Nasihats, Marsiyas, Kasidahs, etc. had embedded codified the lyrics which, in Kothar's words: "Goya, Maulana ni masghari karta tha". It is a wonder why it took Kothar years to decode and act.

A split in modern times is a stigma, to us Bohras and Reformists, particularly if its real reasons become known in the Islamic world. It is believed that Mazoon will be appeased with whatever he wants in terms money and real estate. Kothar will then be assured of unobstructed control and continued explotation of the Bohras.












.

[Rising Star]

so what do you suggest brother?

[Haggi]

mkenya,
safi sana, umeandika ukweli kabisa,
For the rest of us it hardly matters whether its the masoos or the mazoom,
whom ever gets the Daiship our fate will always remain the same. Abdes for
ever to be leached.

[voice]

S. Insaaf,

Assalamu aleykum,

Well said and for all those who are having questions in there mind regarding the reason of split in Dawoodi Bohra community, you have almost answered unveiled and made public the character of mansoos and status of Mazoon saheb. People as they will realize the true facts behind these game of power, surely will loose the respect for mansoos. The only need of the hour is to make the public aware of this Mafia`s and power grabbers. Allah is best of planners and in spite of all the efforts of mansoos camp`s, news of internal conflict is out, highlighted in Media and talk of the whole community.

Regarding its outcome than wait till SMB is alive.

[voice]

In case anybody misses than a well detailed explaination and reason`s of talk of split written on another thread by Mr S. Insaaf, a must read masterpiece on the ongoing subject of Qutbi Bohra.

"Since the beginning of Islam, Ismaili sect and Bohra sub-sect numerous spits have taken placed and almost all splits have taken placed on the issue of “Succession”.
The first major division between Sunnis and Shi’ites took placed in Islam on the question of succession to the Holy Prophet Mohammad (pbuh). Again Shi’ites got divided in to number of sects like Zaidiyya, Kaisaniyya, Hanafiyya, Imamiyya, Ismaliyya etc and sub-sects like Khojas, Bohras etc. Around year 1090 A.D. the Shia-Ismailiya-Mustaliya-Tayyebiya sub-sect known as “Bohras” came in to existence and again in 1597 A.D. a split took placed among Bohras on the issue of succession thus dividing them in Daudi Bohra and Sulymani Bohras.
But the further divide took placed in 1837 A.D. among Daudi Bohras. This split is important to our topic as this split was due to ambiguity in the declaration of “Nass” as 46th Dai Syedna Badruddin Saheb died at the age of 26 years due to food poisoning, without pronouncing clear and open “Nass- Jali” on his successor. He officiated as Dai only for 4 years. Though most common Bohras accepted 47th Dai Syedna Abdul Qadir Najmuddin Saheb as the legitimate successor but among the ulema validity of Nass on him was disputed and they remained firmly opposed the claim of Syedna Abdul Qadir Najmuddin Saheb. This dispute has not been resolved till today as unambiguous declaration of Nass in favour of successor is religious obligation.
In comparison to 46th Dai Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin Saheb, 52nd Dawoodi Bohra Dai has been living a longest life of 102 and he is on seat of Dai for more than 48 years. His father and 51st Dawoodi Bohra Dai Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb died at the age of 80 years and he had officiated as Dai for 50 years. Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin Saheb was born in 1915 and he declared Mazoon-e-Dawat and successor by Nass-Jali in 1938 when he was 19 year old. Burhanuddin Saheb was Mazoon-e-Dawat till 1965 when his father and 51st Dawoodi Bohra Dai Dai Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb died. Though Nass was conferred on him in 1938 till 1965 he was known as “Mazoon-e-Dawat and he was never called as “Mansoos”.
Allah has given longest life span which all 51 Dais before him did not get. Allah gave him more than 48 years of Daiship. But for the reasons best known him he did not declare Nass on any one and kept his followers guessing. Meanwhile the power struggle in Dai’s filthy rich family continued. In order to knock down the chances of Mazoon-e-Dawat, Syedi Khuzema Bhaisaheb Qutbuddin as successor, numbers of conspiracies were plotted by the certain members of Dai’s family against him. First an attempt was made to defame him in the eyes of the community members; story of his romance with film actress Nafisa Ali was floated. Then came a revelation by Taizoon Bhaisaheb (http://www.zahirbatin.com), regarding Zahir Batin controversy. This was a second attempt to confuse Bohra follower to accept or not accept Syedi Khuzema Bhaisaheb Qutbuddin as Mazoon-e-Dawat. One more attempt was made to frighten Syedi Khuzema Bhaisaheb Qutbuddin and his supporters by violently attacking Taizoon Bhaisaheb in Bombay and then Syedi Khuzema Bhaisaheb Qutbuddin in Surat by goons of Burhani Guards. Every time name of Mufaddal Bhaisaheb Saifuddin came as stage-manager.
In March 2011 there were celebrations all over on Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin’s 100th birthday. He went London and suffered a stroke was admitted in London hospital. He was unconscious and doctors had lost hope. It was then his 4 sons announced that Syedna Burhanuddin Saheb appointed his second son, Syedi Mufaddal Bhaisaheb Saifuddin, as his successor and the 53rd Dai al-Mutlaq of the Dawoodi Bohra community. No other member of the community was present then and there. Then Syedna Saheb returned to Bombay and he was brought to Rozatut-Tahera where his words were not audible and his doctor Moiz Bhaisaheb had to interpret what he was trying to say.
Under these circumstances a situation of doubt aroused due to ambiguity in the declaration of “Nass” as it was not pronounced clear and open. He was brought Rozatut-Tahera just for confirmation after declaring “Nass” in private among his sons only.
This why there is roumer that some Bohras are leaning towards Mazoon-e-Dawat Syedi Qutbuddin Saheb."

[voice]

Kothar in the last three decades has instituted and gradually implemented a very strong-handed strategy to subjugate Bohras. Today its grip on the community is total and irreversible.

Don`t loose hope, Allah is best of the planners.

[Bohra spring]

Saifuddin,
Are you leaning towards Mazoon saheb or you are creating this Drama.Qutbi bohra came to your site first.No one know who is Qutbi Bohra is? Its was Progressive Dawoodi bohra who came with this issuse and this Drama.Pls leave us alone MIND YOUR OWN BUSNIESS LOOK AFTER YOUR HEALTH.
Saifuddin Stand in front of mirror and ask your self Why you created this fake rmour of new Qutbi Bohra sect. See your age is time to do Allah Allah...not remour.

Shabbir what is your explanation and evidence that SMB clearly stated in his own sound words and mind that the Mansoos and successor is Mufaddal.

If Moiz Bhaisaheb was relaying how sure are you he repeated what SMB said without distortion.

And anyway SMB is still alive why not bring him, get an inDependent witness, lawyer and announce the successor and the issue is gone. The clock is ticking ....the sooner this get done the better.

If SMB does nominate Muffy he regrettably will go down history as having made a poor choice , in his departure I would have expected him to try to correct the years of wrong as he readies to meet his creator.

And anyways for the reformist the issue is bigger than the successor , the only difference is we can give Qutbi benefit of doubt and allow him to prove his capability in reforming the community. If he fails the test and ends corrupt he will be a target of the resistance.

Muffy by his current incompetency and background as a corrupt Zada has too much bad history and is not the capable or competent leader to lead the community. He has failed the character and skills test. His recent pathetic hallucinations is one example , the other his lust for luxury, hunting, fancy travel. There is no way he can claim to be rightful religious leader. I would not hire him a CEO so how can I trust him by leading a faith.

[Bohra spring]

Kothar in the last three decades has instituted and gradually implemented a very strong-handed strategy to subjugate Bohras. Today its grip on the community is total and irreversible.

Don`t loose hope, Allah is best of the planners.

People like us , you, I and others can make that grip a bit difficult for the successors.

Let us not give them a free ride.

We can oil so the grip is slippery

[Grayson]

But the further divide took placed in 1837 A.D. among Daudi Bohras. This split is important to our topic as this split was due to ambiguity in the declaration of “Nass” as 46th Dai Syedna Badruddin Saheb died at the age of 26 years due to food poisoning, without pronouncing clear and open “Nass- Jali” on his successor. He officiated as Dai only for 4 years. Though most common Bohras accepted 47th Dai Syedna Abdul Qadir Najmuddin Saheb as the legitimate successor but among the ulema validity of Nass on him was disputed and they remained firmly opposed the claim of Syedna Abdul Qadir Najmuddin Saheb. This dispute has not been resolved till today as unambiguous declaration of Nass in favour of successor is religious obligation.

Salaams brother. In all manners of accountability, peace and intelligent progression I stand beside Progressive Dawoodi Bohras. On this issue however, I take issue.

This isn't among literature that I've come across other parts of this site aside from the forum, and the claim itself also lacks validity (no literature I've come across as of yet). I do not doubt the current regime and it's downfalls don't be attributed to the Dai. He is supposed to lead us, after all. But questioning the legitimacy over whether or not the Dai-ship was usurped in the past means a difference in faith. It's pretty much a schism in itself for believers up until the 46th Dai.

History of that time is likely vague, and perhaps neither party could prove outright what is or isn't. If this is a view that's strongly held in Progressive circles, it'll make unification with orthodox considerably difficult, and in turn, the fight for accountability.

[think]

yazidiat is dirham and dinaar and immamat is akhlaq. judge yourself. History, you may delve on, but then pages of history have been changed. Think.

[Grayson]

Reevaluation of faith is too drastic a measure.
Accountability is what resonates now.
Pushing both together, hand in hand, doesn't seem like an effective tactic to me.
The former will make the faithful disregard the latter. Whereas establishing the latter could eventually challenge the former.

[Mufaddali]

Yaar Tum Logo Ki Aukaat Kya He?
Koi kaam Dhanda Nahi He? Duniya Bhar ki Ladies Jaise Baat Karoge Iski Uski?
Kya He Ye? Tumhare Ghar Me Koi Problm Hoti He So Puri Duniya Aati He PANCHAAT Karne Nai Na.
To Is Matter Me Bhi Plz Mat Aao Apne Kaam Me Dhyaan Do.
Ye Sab High Level Ki problm Un Logo Ko Dekhno Do Tum Sab Apne Kaam Pe Dhyaan Do. My Father My family My God My mara Mola Aqa Mola Tus. Khuda Ghani Umaar Daraaz Kare Mara Mola Ni Ameen And My Loved Dai Mufaddal Mola Tus Ko Follow Karo Ya Mat Karo Kisi Ni Pucha Tumse?
Dawoodi Bohra Me Rehna To Raho Chein Se Jiyo Aur Jene Do Hume Dawodi Bohra Ko.

[Al Zulfiqar]

Yaar Tum Logo Ki Aukaat Kya He?

Dawoodi Bohra Me Rehna To Raho Chein Se Jiyo Aur Jene Do Hume Dawodi Bohra Ko.

bhaisaheb muffadali,

to aap ka kehna hai ke agar dawoodi bohra rehna hai to apna dimagh aur aqal bechkar gadhey aur ghulam ban jao, wohi aapki asli auqat hai?

aur agar aap dawoodi bohra hai to kya hum dawoodi bohra nahi hai? yeh forum ka naam kya hai?

[Humsafar]

History of that time is likely vague, and perhaps neither party could prove outright what is or isn't. If this is a view that's strongly held in Progressive circles, it'll make unification with orthodox considerably difficult, and in turn, the fight for accountability.

The controversy over the $46th's successor is part of Bohra folklore. You won't find in Bohra literature disseminated by the clergy for obvious reasons, but it has been noted by old timers. The four ustads were driven out of Jamea because they raised this issue. As for reformists, this issues is irrelevant. We as dawoodi bohras are interested in social reforms. Religious doctrine or succession of Dais is not under discussion.

[Grayson]

I understand brother and agree it should be irrelevant. But we can't have senior reformists continue to bring this up as it'll alienate those that agree solely with accountability.
If it's a view that continues to pair with justified demands, I fear the amount of people that listen will lessen.

[Humsafar]

The issue is brought up here because it fits the context of the topic. It was not as gratuitous as you make it out to be. I can understand why the clergy and their devout followers do not like to hear about unpalatable aspects of our history, but that's just too bad. In fact, all Bohras must know about this succession glitch because they need to understand that the clergy which rules over them with such ruthless authority is itself standing on a shaky foundation and lacks legitimacy. But I agree, and have always insisted that, our main focus must be on the core issues of reform.

[Grayson]

Indeed it's not as gratuitous, but even the mention of it likely relegates the rest of the words this informative post has to offer.
Compare that bit to the other information mentioned and it's a contrast of popular belief (of both past and present) and folklore, intertwined.
It doesn't have to do with whether someone can hear other views or not (I agree with you in stating them, but not when it makes people we aim to speak to defensive) so much as it has to do with why continue on about it when it isn't part of the core purpose? As the ideals of this movement are focused on present accountability, past unknowns of faith shouldn't get mixed in with it (atleast not while the majority of people are followers rather than thinkers). Else anyone can argue for any other side of the numerous schisms that've taken place.
I've found when I talk to my staunch believing friends, if I am to mention a point which they consider complete blasphemy, they're less likely to consider my words that'd normally seem reasonable.

[Bohra spring]

Kya He Ye? Tumhare Ghar Me Koi Problm Hoti He So Puri Duniya Aati He PANCHAAT Karne Nai Na.
To Is Matter Me Bhi Plz Mat Aao Apne Kaam Me Dhyaan Do.
Ye Sab High Level Ki problm Un Logo Ko Dekhno Do Tum Sab Apne Kaam Pe Dhyaan Do. My Father My family
Dawoodi Bohra Me Rehna To Raho Chein Se Jiyo Aur Jene Do Hume Dawodi Bohra Ko.

Bhaisaheb ...gar me problem he, lekin itefak se tumare sardar molat nahi dete, ke dimag se behaz kare. To mamuli admi kya karsacte. Dusro ki madat lete he.

Tomare or hamare soch me farak he, hum azadi chate he agar tumare sardar kabul farmawe to hum bardash karsacte he democracy ke usul se. Agar Nahi to ye Dushmani ziada hogi.

Hamara kam Deen ko Saaf karna, juth ko dekhana ...to hum apna kam karte he aap Apna ghulami ka kam karo, agar hamari bat me koi sach he to hamari bat suno

Aap Apka serdar ko bolo agar hum sab Chein se rahe...to hum aaj Bohra Musalman Nahi hote aur hum hamare dada ke tara Gujarat me khet me bakri chalate. Wo Samaj jayage hamara ishara

[ghulam muhammed]

Yaar Tum Logo Ki Aukaat Kya He?

Ghulamo se to kai zyaada behtar hai !!

[think]

yes, agreed the modus operindi should be accountabilty and let faith take its turn.
Accountabilty is a numbers game and then a question; what right do you have to question how I spend my money as long as you have given it to me".
Accountabilty is the issue at hand which has raised the question of faith. Accountabilty is the effect and not the cause. Faith is on loose ground because of accountabilty, hence faith has weakened and should be overpowered; but since faith is due to one aspect of accountability then directing all energies towards relenquishing these sources will result in conquering faith and thus evolving into a democratic bohri society where responsibilty speaks respect and money walks

[wise_guy]

70% of the Bohra community consists of loyal followers of the Dai. They are so devout that his every word and action is adhered to. 25% are people
just give lip service; in that they pay their dues, attend most jamaat functions to be seen, have wealth of gossip and display their displeasure of Kothar whenever an occasion presents itself. They are the camouflaged dissidents who are weaklings to voice their opinion in public. If only these people would stop attending the events the resident Shahzadas or Sheikhs will notice their absence. Would that happen? No! As things stand now mosques and markaz are full and it is assumed that these are true Mohibs of Dai and Kothar. The balance of 5% are the reformists who are doing a tremendous job of keeping each other and the Bohras aware of issues, invite debates and expose transgressions of Kothar.


.

I am one of the 25% !

[faiyaz0987]

Then there are also people like me who have seen the nonsense going on within bohri community and decided these idiots dont have the answers to guide anyone on a proper religious path let alone spiritual enlightenment.

Its better to be atheist and spiritual, follow good karma. Rather than hope that donating ridiculous amounts of money to some self proclaimed GODMAN will send me on a magical ride to heaven where my front seat is already reserved.

By the way every GODMAN and every community say with conviction that only they are going to heaven and they are the chosen ones, someone has to be lying here.
Lets have a poll who is lying and who is closer to the truth.

[Momin Mukhlis]

Aazadi... Hahaha. Jo Syedna Saheb ko follow kar rahe hai kya unko zanjeer me baandha hai kya. Aazad to wo bhi hai. Khayal rahe ye Dawat hai jo Nass ba Nass qayam rehti hai. Koi Politics nahi hai jisme vote do aur apna neta chuno.
Muhammed (S.A.W) ne bhi 70 hazar Musalmano ke darmiyan Ali ibn-e-Abi Talib par Nass farmayi thi... Mukarne wale to us waqt bhi mukar gaye the. Lekin Dawat to ta qayamat qayam rahegi.

[ammar786]

first of all i would like to say that it would be better for you if you filter your language, we know that you are filled with hatred but dont show the thinking of your as well as the group to which you belong becoz it really smells very bad... and the people you are talking about has no comparison with you people.. as said in quran you are all on path of zahiliyat.[/quote]

what is path of jhiliat?

worshiping one GOD? or doing sajdaas to humans?[/quote]


the path of jahiliat is the on which you are walking and even we worship one god but it is honour or we can say like farz that we should give sajadaas to the great people who thought us to worship god, and even allah comanded to iblis to do sajada for adam but he refused and thus he was thrown in to jahanum. and even if you people continue the same, this will happen with you too.
if you are talking about humans than even our rasul ae khuda was human, i would ask you that even you will refuse to do sajdaa for him??? as that jaahil wahabis do???

[ammar786]

Ammar I think you are not aware of the consequences what happened when Sayedana has proclaimed lanat in public and after that he has to submit unconditional mafinama to muslims. Please restrain about your languages since you are in public.

Also please clarify why you are here with your fictitious identity without your surname?[/quote]

Dear bro, we are never afraid of consequences and about maafinama and all that things are rubbish.
we are not as coward as you people, the truth will always be revealed.
and sometimes have look on our history, our duato has given there life for haq and will be giving always if needed.

[ammar786]

Hello !

This is my first message. I'm 26 and living in Europe.
I have been carefully reading these forum for months.

I'm particularly confused by this "rumour" about the Qutbi that's why I decided to participate in the debate...

I don't now if HT is right but this can be read on Mazoom's web site :

On 5th night of Rajab [Sunday, 5 June] Mazoon-e-Dawat tus presided over majlis in Ghurrat-ul-Masajid Saifee Masjid, in which the recording of bayan of Shehzada Qaid Joher Bhaisaheb Ezzuddin dm from London was relayed. Shehzada Saheb did zikar of Aqamola tus performing Nass on al-Mawlal Ajal Syedi Aali Qadr Mufaddal Bhaisaheb Saifuddin tus.

Does it not implicitly mean that mazoom accepted the nuss over Mufaddal bhaisaheb?

PS : sorry for my bad english.

salaam bro,
you are right, but i would like to say you that this people are real fools, they just keep on posting whatever there jaahil heads say to them.
this is 1 event and there are even many more events in which mazoome-dawat maula(t.u.s) was present with aaliqadat mansus (t.u.s).
but i would like to question that who the hell are this people to talk about us or about our maula???
even if they talk why the hell should we ans them????
as this people are jaahils they would never come on right path..

[Rising Star]

first of all i would like to say that it would be better for you if you filter your language, we know that you are filled with hatred but dont show the thinking of your as well as the group to which you belong becoz it really smells very bad... and the people you are talking about has no comparison with you people.. as said in quran you are all on path of zahiliyat.

what is path of jhiliat?

worshiping one GOD? or doing sajdaas to humans?[/quote]


the path of jahiliat is the on which you are walking and even we worship one god but it is honour or we can say like farz that we should give sajadaas to the great people who thought us to worship god, and even allah comanded to iblis to do sajada for adam but he refused and thus he was thrown in to jahanum. and even if you people continue the same, this will happen with you too.
if you are talking about humans than even our rasul ae khuda was human, i would ask you that even you will refuse to do sajdaa for him??? as that jaahil wahabis do???[/quote]

biggest proof of jhalat is, u dont even know SAJDA is just for ALLAH, no matter how great a human is, no sajda for him...


show me single proof from shia,sunnni,bohra books that any muslim or sahaba did sajda of prophet Muhammed(s)

if u can bring it, I promise i will change my view about it...

and if u cant bring the proof, u must agree u are kaafir and munaafiq of worst stage.

[Maqbool]

Ammar I think you are not aware of the consequences what happened when Sayedana has proclaimed lanat in public and after that he has to submit unconditional mafinama to muslims. Please restrain about your languages since you are in public.

Also please clarify why you are here with your fictitious identity without your surname?

Dear bro, we are never afraid of consequences and about maafinama and all that things are rubbish.
we are not as coward as you people, the truth will always be revealed.
and sometimes have look on our history, our duato has given there life for haq and will be giving always if needed.[/quote]

If it is true then why the Mafinama in first place? Duato has given their life is past history. In presence the dai proclaim lanat and then tender apologize. Can you explain this?

[Maqbool]

first of all i would like to say that it would be better for you if you filter your language, we know that you are filled with hatred but dont show the thinking of your as well as the group to which you belong becoz it really smells very bad... and the people you are talking about has no comparison with you people.. as said in quran you are all on path of zahiliyat.

what is path of jhiliat?

worshiping one GOD? or doing sajdaas to humans?[/quote]


the path of jahiliat is the on which you are walking and even we worship one god but it is honour or we can say like farz that we should give sajadaas to the great people who thought us to worship god, and even allah comanded to iblis to do sajada for adam but he refused and thus he was thrown in to jahanum. and even if you people continue the same, this will happen with you too.
if you are talking about humans than even our rasul ae khuda was human, i would ask you that even you will refuse to do sajdaa for him??? as that jaahil wahabis do???[/quote]
Rasul-E-Khuda has never asked to do sajda to him. If he has please prove.