Mufaddal Saifuddin (and related topics)

[true_bohra]

after reading this well thought and well proofed post from Fatema ben, T_B will disappear for some time on this thread like "ghade ke sir se singh", or he will just try to redicule and divert topic.

ben fatema, may be till now u didnt noticed, but these guys are not here to learn or to accept HAQ, they are here to save their master by hook or by crook.

HAQ....HAHAHAH....if you consider that KQ is on haqq then you have to admit that his predeccesor Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA was also a haqq na dai (which is unquestionable) then why reformist were abusing haqq na saheb....

Just accept that this is just a platform for criticizing and as KQ has turned up, you guys are elavated with joy because this is defaming the dawat on whole. There is no reason with you to believe him. All this fake faith in him is illusionary..

[MMH]

One more Shehzada Mufaddal bhaisab video I got on email.

How can he forget when his own father told him to read a letter which allegedly made him successor. And why would Syedna Burhanuddin RA just not tell him. Also notice how Shehzada Mufaddal bhaisab as he is talking about this book looks down at his notes to see which year he has to mention 1430 - hmm 4 -5 year. yaad nathi..

Unbelievable!!!!! Su nirali shaan che

http://youtu.be/phJ3WJXjgLE

I was present for this waaz. I had gone with an open mind to hear the first 'waaz' of Mufaddal Bhaisaab as 'Dai'. Up until then, I was still confused. However, after listening to this waaz, I was completely convinced of his dishonesty and hypocrisy! A true mansoos would never forget the date on which he was informed of his impending succession! The way he narrated the whole story, it sounded so fake! He could not even read the 'succession note' clearly! Also, the whole 'kakajisaab ne gale lagavi lais' was such a big drama. If he was sincere, that should have been his first reaction, not after 20 days of lanats and after formally announcing his excommunication! There were many other things in the waaz that I felt were not appropriate. For me personally, this was the last nail in the coffin of Mufaddal Bhaisaab's claim to the daiship!

You know Fatema ben, The day the first whatsapp message giving laanat to Qutbuddin Moula reached me, I knew we were under the wrong leadership..All this while since his announcement of ‘mansoos’ I was trying to prepare my children with the ‘TRUE’ mansoos by attending Mufaddal b/s ziyafat and attending all the waaz relays and all those visits he made to our city. I am so disappointed that he let all this laanat nonsense carry on for so many weeks. That just led me to believe that Aqa Moula Mohammed Burhanuddin would never leave us with such a weak leader. Also, my daughter who had attended our family ziyafat in Mumbai 10 days before Aqa Maula's demise tells me 'ma, I dont think Aali Qadr Moula is ready for the daai's job'.....this she said before any signs of conflict came up!! I did not have any answers to give my child because I knew I wasn’t convinced myself and then the laanats happened.

The laanat stuff followed by the sub standard waaz's have made me seek for a spiritual connection that I have been reaffirming again and again with whatever I am reading and hearing of Qutbuddin Moula...

[Fatema MN]

To both Respected Fatema Ben's (Doctor and MN),

i have just one simple question in all of this.

There is no doubt that Ex-Mazun Maula has certainly take the moral high ground but if he indeed has all this proof at his disposal, why is he not making it public?

Why is he creating an air of such mystery, causing so much stress in the lives of the common folk? Why not just come out, all card on the table and make the claim? If he has all the proof, and if it is found to be legitimate, then nature will take its own course and things will be clearer, doodh ka doodh, paani ka paani as they say.

I personally think that there is enough proof on the fatemidawat site. The Q&A section is also very informative and helpful. I have had the good fortune of interacting with Qutbuddin Moula (while he was the mazoon) on a few occasions and I found him to be a very spiritual and loving person. He truly cares for the well being of mumineen and I think he is a man of integrity. Regarding any other proof of nass and why he is not making it public, I think you should ask this question to info@fatemidawat.com. I am not the right person to answer it.

Mufaddal Maula has nothing to prove, as of now. He was annointed (which members are admitting now after repeated hearing of the video here are slowly beginning to accept ) and howsoever many doubts you may have, proof is that while Burhanuddin Maula (RA) was alive, he was accepted by the general populace as the next Dai, reformists even.

I was present for the live relay of the Raudat Tahera ceremony. Did not understand a single word said my Moula, neither did the women sitting around me. Later I called my cousin in Mumbai, who was present there and she also said that she did not understand anything that Moula said. When I saw the video posted on the fatemidawat site, again I could not understand anything. I think only James bhai on this forum claims to have heard Moula say 'nass nu taj etc.' One other person also heard that on the video that was posted later(could be doctored) but he said that Moula's voice sounded different when he said 'nass nu taj...' versus when he said 'barakat aape' and also that there was zero reaction from the people when the 'nas nu taj...' part is heard. So, bhai Zinger, there is enough reason to doubt. Also, the whole London episode sounds very bizarre and improbable.

So frankly, the onus of proving the claim needs to be on the person making it, ex Mazun Maula in this case. Mind you, i am not calling ex-Mazun Maula by the name that he is derogatorily referred to, but there is no doubt that legally, until proven otherwise, he is the person who is legally referred to as the claimant.

i am only interested in one thing. this drama to end and the real next Dai to lead the community. it doesnt matter who it will turn out to be , but as of now, Mufaddal Maula is the rightful Dai

I too would like this drama to end and the haq na saheb to be recognized by all mumineen. However, some things are beyond us and all we can do is come to a logical conclusion based on our intelligence and Aqidah. Once again, I urge you to watch the Q&A video sessions on the fatemidawat site.

[ghulam muhammed]

Mumbai Jameeat Ahyaa ul lail in Raudat Tahera Mumbai

Huzurala Tus ni raza mubarak si 10 jamadil ula Mumbai Jameeat na mumeneen Raudat Tahera ma 24 kalaak rahi ibadat kidi. Syedi Mukasir Saheb na haath mubarak per bewe Moula na qaber mubarak per ghilaf charhaya.Ane Darees ane Matam majlis aqd thai.

ALL THE FANCY WORDS USED TO CREATE MORE CONFUSION......... FIRST IT WAS AL HAY, NOW IT IS AHYAA UL LAIL

[alam]

All this 3 years post Milad e Meavi, he was absent and suddenly on the day Syedna RA passed away, he comes out as a genie of the bottle and appeared on youtube.

If he was the true mansoos and dawat was under siege then as a true mansoos, he should have come to rescue. Where was his himmat at that time???

Khuzemabhaisaheb was prevented access to maula Burhanuddin. Time and time again. Even SMB was silenced by the mafias and Munaafekeens surrounding him. Such is the nature of the Fitnat. It is small minded to think that the Fitnat is against SKQ. The root cause of the Fitnat is greed. Greed for power. Greed for money. Greed for Reputation. Well, their Reputation is tainted now, is it not?

Sadly, Aa'le YN munafiqs (BJ, JUZER, Kauserali, saidkher, johara maria) have shown no desire for respect, compassion, kindness toward ordinary Bohras. They have become good at patronizing, manipulating, sweet talking crap, that Innocent, unthinking or brainwashed mumineens mistake it for Ne'mat uzmaa (to which they do shukr, and the YN goons just laugh behind their backs).

[james]

Mumbai Jameeat Ahyaa ul lail in Raudat Tahera Mumbai

Huzurala Tus ni raza mubarak si 10 jamadil ula Mumbai Jameeat na mumeneen Raudat Tahera ma 24 kalaak rahi ibadat kidi. Syedi Mukasir Saheb na haath mubarak per bewe Moula na qaber mubarak per ghilaf charhaya.Ane Darees ane Matam majlis aqd thai.

ALL THE FANCY WORDS USED TO CREATE MORE CONFUSION......... FIRST IT WAS AL HAY, NOW IT IS AHYAA UL LAIL

You goof up again .

As you are a first class moron , you wouldn't understand that Ahyaa Ul Lail has nothing to do with Al Hay . It means something completely different.

[rational_guy]

seems all the laanat baazi has stopped or receding. No more stuff on the streets. Are they planning to attack the supporters of Mola Qutbuddin TUS in other ways.

This time reminds of the time, how the true followers of Mola Ali were persecuted and some were even banished from the borders of the city.

[Fatema MN]

after reading this well thought and well proofed post from Fatema ben, T_B will disappear for some time on this thread like "ghade ke sir se singh", or he will just try to redicule and divert topic.

ben fatema, may be till now u didnt noticed, but these guys are not here to learn or to accept HAQ, they are here to save their master by hook or by crook.

Destroyer bhai, it is not my place to judge the motives of people on this forum. I am here to have a meaningful debate and express my thoughts and share my experiences. true_bohra bhai may or may not benefit from it, but there might be others who read these posts and maybe they might benefit in some way. I can only try.

[Fatema MN]

after reading this well thought and well proofed post from Fatema ben, T_B will disappear for some time on this thread like "ghade ke sir se singh", or he will just try to redicule and divert topic.

ben fatema, may be till now u didnt noticed, but these guys are not here to learn or to accept HAQ, they are here to save their master by hook or by crook.

HAQ....HAHAHAH....if you consider that KQ is on haqq then you have to admit that his predeccesor Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA was also a haqq na dai (which is unquestionable) then why reformist were abusing haqq na saheb....

Just accept that this is just a platform for criticizing and as KQ has turned up, you guys are elavated with joy because this is defaming the dawat on whole. There is no reason with you to believe him. All this fake faith in him is illusionary..

true_bohra bhai, I am a Dawoodi bohra who sincerely believes that Syedna Qutbuddin is the 53rd Dai and he was appointed by Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin 49 years ago. I don't think that all the people on this forum are against Burhanuddin Moula, so you cannot generalize as you do in your post. Many mumineen post on this forum and many more mumineen are now reading these posts since there is no other open forum for such discussions. Even if a past reformist is now willing to come back in the fold of dawat, what is the harm in it? Don't people from other faiths accept our faith?

Besides, why do you avoid the main topics of discussion? I tried to answer all the questions you raised about Qutbuddin Moula. Why not respond to my post? Earlier too, you ignored my reply to your comments about the photograph of Mufaddal bhaisaab being carried on the shoulders of the Yemeni people.

[true_bohra]

What is so worng about that picture. Have you seen the cd of Mansoor ul Yaman..How Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA was given wel come by yemenis. That is there way of felicitation and what negative implication is it giving to you.

[zinger]

HAQ....HAHAHAH....if you consider that KQ is on haqq then you have to admit that his predeccesor Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA was also a haqq na dai (which is unquestionable) then why reformist were abusing haqq na saheb....

Just accept that this is just a platform for criticizing and as KQ has turned up, you guys are elavated with joy because this is defaming the dawat on whole. There is no reason with you to believe him. All this fake faith in him is illusionary..

true_bohra bhai, I am a Dawoodi bohra who sincerely believes that Syedna Qutbuddin is the 53rd Dai and he was appointed by Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin 49 years ago. I don't think that all the people on this forum are against Burhanuddin Moula, so you cannot generalize as you do in your post. Many mumineen post on this forum and many more mumineen are now reading these posts since there is no other open forum for such discussions. Even if a past reformist is now willing to come back in the fold of dawat, what is the harm in it? Don't people from other faiths accept our faith?

Besides, why do you avoid the main topics of discussion? I tried to answer all the questions you raised about Qutbuddin Moula. Why not respond to my post? Earlier too, you ignored my reply to your comments about the photograph of Mufaddal bhaisaab being carried on the shoulders of the Yemeni people.

Fatema ben,

i would like to add on to what true bohra bhai has replied.

Mufaddal Maula is being carried on their shoulders in an act of love.

even the dagger that he is carrying is not a sword or a trishul, it is the dagger that all Yemeni's carry.

i would only like to know what is your point of concern in that. the pic was taken 1 or 2 years ago. at that time, no one had a problem, but it is being put up now as a recent pic to show that he is celebrating, which is unethical.

your belief is yours, to each his/her own and you are welcome to it. however as for the second part of your statement as to only a few people against Burhanuddin Maula (RA), you are extremely far removed from the truth, only a few people were NOT against him. before his death, there was not a single thread or topic where Maula (the person), the position or our faith in him was not ridiculed and dragged through the dirt. you have come now, you need to do a little back-reading to understand.

reformists have always been accepted back in the fold. humsafar bhai can perhaps elaborate on this more.

[james]

i would only like to know what is your point of concern in that. the pic was taken 1 or 2 years ago. at that time, no one had a problem, but it is being put up now as a recent pic to show that he is celebrating, which is unethical.

More than that.1428H during Milad of Dai Zaman I think. Yemeni mumineen along with all the mehman from all over the world used to partake in tilawat of madeh and their traditional dance with daggers after Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA used to do zyarat of Syedna Hatim RA and returned back to gurfah mubarak . Then Maula RA used to give deedar mubarak to mumineen from upstairs from a window in the gurfah mubarak .

[Bohra spring]

Not a All reformist speak or act in unison , it is a group of diverse ideas that are trying to reform the community

When you say some are against SMB not all are and that is ok

I personally am not SMB fan but he has gone so let him rest in peace and answer his creator

We now have SMS and SKQ , whatever their claim on succession some may want to trace that as reason for their faith

However there are reformists like moi who have chosen SKQ based on competency and character

So even if SMS finds or cooks up proof that he is rightful Diai , I will continue supporting SKQ , SMS is unacceptable unless he seriously changes his character

If SKQ is the rightful successor or does succeed in his challenge but fails to live up to our expectations he will loose my support

[mohamedshah]

MS represents convenience - His side controls Masjids, Kabrastans, Musafir Khana's, Mazar's , Funds, administrative structure and other resources including human resources to enforce his will (Burhani Guards, Shabab etc). Analogy being to Yazid controlling the Armed forces of the Islamic Empire, Baitul Maal, administrative structure, so majority of the people were with him, does that make him right?

SKQ represents conviction - His side has greater spiritual connection, knowledge, integrity. Analogy Imam Hussein (AS) Ibne Ali (AS) his followers were fewer in number even including even those not with him in Kerbala ( e.g. Mohamed Hanafiya Ibne Ali, the sons and daughters of Imam Hassan ibne (AS) and Abbas Ibne Ali) and others).

We can make our choices, remember we are and will remain brothers in Islam even if our preferred choices are different.


Our cue should be - In Medina when Muhammad was sitting with his companions and Hasan, who was still a child, was playing between his hands, Muhammad is said to have gazed at Hasan and said to his companions "This (grand)son of mine is a delight, and may God place in his hands the reconciliation of two great groups of believers (mu'minun)." This was in reference to the Peace treaty with Muawiyah - definitive words being 2 groups of Muminun.

[maddy]

First Jumaa ni namaaz in the newly built MANSURIL YEMAN MASJID, HUTAIB. All the shahzadas and qasre aali sahebo wore the traditional yemani safo,turban and khanjar belts.


Aa dekhi ne koi kahi sake k jara pan gam ya dukh che ?????

[maddy]

First Jumaa ni namaaz in the newly built MANSURIL YEMAN MASJID, HUTAIB. All the shahzadas and qasre aali sahebo wore the traditional yemani safo,turban and khanjar belts.


Aa dekhi ne koi kahi sake k jara pan gam ya dukh che ?????

[Truth-Prevails]

First Jumaa ni namaaz in the newly built MANSURIL YEMAN MASJID, HUTAIB. All the shahzadas and qasre aali sahebo wore the traditional yemani safo,turban and khanjar belts.


Aa dekhi ne koi kahi sake k jara pan gam ya dukh che ?????

Feeling very sad.. no words..

[way2go]

First Jumaa ni namaaz in the newly built MANSURIL YEMAN MASJID, HUTAIB. All the shahzadas and qasre aali sahebo wore the traditional yemani safo,turban and khanjar belts.


Aa dekhi ne koi kahi sake k jara pan gam ya dukh che ?????

Maddy bhai....
Haath ma Janbya ( Yemeni khanjar) lai ne dukh no ehlaan to kari rahya chhe!!!!!!!
Jem Muharram maa bija Shia khanjar si maatam kare emmaj yahaan maatame shor thai rahyo chhe..... Bilkul gham bataavi rahya chhe!!!

[hakimja]

THIS PAPER IS SELLING LIKE HOT CAKES!!! DOES ANYONE KNOWS THE OWNER OF THIS PAPER?? WHERE IT IS FROM? DURING MY RECENT VISIT I CAME TO KNOW ABT THIS AND SEEING SUCH LARGE NUMBER OF CROWD TAKING IT NEAR RAUDAT TAHERA AND ALSO SEEN COPIES OF THIS IN MANY HANDS EVERYWHERE... WHY IT IS IN SO MUCH DEMAND?? WHOS PAPER IT IS?

[Habeel]

I have observed that sometime people on the forum are very reactive for obvious events. What is wrong dressing in Yemeni culture and having a dragger in the hand?

[think]

here is what is wrong. My personal belief is that religion is there to guide us in the right direction, not to make us fight each other. with daggeres on belts and a warrior like dance, the body language is clearly indicative of violance. This is not muslim religion. It is an underhand deal on islam. It is a cult worship.

[way2go]

Just received below post on WhatsApp. Wondering if the Press Conference held by SKQ sons has prompted this. Is he worried of losing the case and subsequently followers and thus this desperate 'muki ne kahaan jao cho'..... 'Aavi jao' ....And saying it will be better for you and your farzando, naa farzando, naa farzando......

Aaje moula jeware shibaam na pahaar joujab padhara tyare mukhtasar maa aem farmayu ke ~

Ae mumineeen tamein sagla Aqa Mohammad Burhanuddin Moula ni maney deedheli Amanat cho, tamaro baal bhi waako na kari sakey koi dushman. Tamein maara dil ma waso cho balkesirf dil maa nahi mara jigar naa ek ek gosha maa waso cho. Halakey itnu tak aap moula yeh aem farmayu keh tamaam Aalam-e-Imaniyah maa jahan jahan mumin wasey chey ehne taakeedan farmavu chu keh Aa bawa ney kahan muki ney jaao cho, aa hakk naa dai ney mukine kahan jao cho. Mukhtasar maa aem tak farmayu ke je sagla bhatki gaya chey ehne bulawu chu ke Syedna Aqa Mohammad Burhanuddin RA na farzando aawi jao lauti jao. Khuda tamara farzando naa farzando naa farzando naa farzando naa farzando naa aem 5 waar aap yeh farmayu aney farmayu ke Imam Hussain nu matam, buka ane Syedna Aqa Mohammad Burhanuddin RA ni mohabbat ba salaamat tamaari 70 pehri lag baaki rakhjo. Ameen !!!

[Truth-Prevails]

Shehzada Mufaddal bhaisab is getting a little desperate. As our friend Fulan ibn Fulan said he has all the people, assets and money, then why is he hot under the collar. He should be chilling

[Smart]

I have observed that sometime people on the forum are very reactive for obvious events. What is wrong dressing in Yemeni culture and having a dragger in the hand?

Bhai Habeel,
Let me try and clarify things based on your criticism and questions.
1. Dressing in Yemeni culture is not, so was dressing in local clothes elsewhere too. It is what the big bosses have insisted that everybody dress similarly in STD and Rida for the last few decades. So the question that you are asking this forum, should be asked to the masters. Are Indian origin Bohras an inferior breed, that they are not allowed to dress based on their local customs, but Yemeni Bohras are?
2. Having a dagger in hand. It has always been taught to us that the masjid is a sanctuary and no weapons are allowed inside. Remember how we are told how Abdulrehman who killed Moulana Ali AS, slept on his sword to hide it. How does it now become okay to bring weapons in the masjid?

What you posited as a simple question based on commonsense has repercussions.

[JC]

So when is Qabiz (or Ghasib) of Qabza group returning to Mumbai?? or he has??

[Habeel]

In my opinion,
1. There may be many ways to look at this. May be your argument is true in some context so not denying on this but its not always true.
2. Context of not carrying weapon is different than displaying as a cultural activity.

[Bohra spring]

SMS doctrine: Do as we say, don't ever suggest or give ideas , Kasre Ali hold the monopoly of intelligence

Any good idea has to be is Diai name.

So if Indians think they prefer their own costumes over std don't ever try but if SMS thinks hunting or wearing Yemeni traditional clothes and daggers is cool he can demand it.

[Smart]

In my opinion,
1. There may be many ways to look at this. May be your argument is true in some context so not denying on this but its not always true.
2. Context of not carrying weapon is different than displaying as a cultural activity.

Are you trying to say that the truth according to the Dawoodi Bohra doctrine is contextual? Or does it depend on who is expounding it?

[alam]

In my opinion,
1. There may be many ways to look at this. May be your argument is true in some context so not denying on this but its not always true.
2. Context of not carrying weapon is different than displaying as a cultural activity.

Are you trying to say that the truth according to the Dawoodi Bohra doctrine is contextual? Or does it depend on who is expounding it?

Smart Bhai,
"Truth", as is almost everything else, contextual, perceived by humans, analysed and understood by humans. Interpretation of "truth", in Quran too is dependent on the contextual factors of the interpreter, their unique background, histories, education and experience.

We often get blinded by discussions when we make assumptions - often unspoken assumptions, of the notion of "Absolute Truth".

"Common sense" comes into play, for example, when one takes into consideration contextual factors in interpreting "truth" or "absolute truth".

[Habeel]

Alam bhai, What a thoughtful answer and thanks to you both. Smart, I was in so much of in my thought process and this kind of questions when puts forth, its creates emotional turbulence. Context is needed for person to understand where some one is coming from and what are the intentions. For example. If a dog licks, one has to get namaazi correct! But Rasulullah (SWT) see that women in Jannat who saves dog's life. One of my favorite quote of Rumi: If you look too closely at the form, you miss the Essence.