Proof for Bro Ghulam Mohammad about Matam

[salaar]

Bro Ghulam Mohammad, I had been thinking about the false claim regarding matam e Hussain that you forwarded through an earlier post by badri janab, i was wondering how to counter this false statement as not much can be talked about mausam e bahar being not an ordinary book to discuss openly, today i was in the masjid when suddenly an idea came in my mind that this false claim could be proved from other literature of that period and here is what i have achieved. first let me give a brief account of Syedna Abd e Ali Saifuddin Maula, he was born in the year 1776 and died in the year 1817 at the age of 41 years, during Maulas period a group from the community detached themselves and did all kind of fitnat specially in the books of that period, maula did everything to counter their wrong concepts and purify momineens tasawur, this fitnat is called Majdou ni fitnat and i guess this literature under discussion could have the work of no other then this majdou group. Now coming onto the topic, during the period of Syedna Abd e Ali Saifuddin Maula a jayyed and Aalim wrote lots of naseehat, his name is Al Haddul Allama Syedi Sadiq Ali Sahib who did the khidmat of 3 duat karam namely Syedna Yousuf Najmuddin, Syedna Abd e Ali Saifuddin and Syedna Mohammad Izzuddin Maula, Syedi sahib not only wrote naseehat but history of dawat and news about the period in which he lived. Syedi sahib was among the hudood of Syedna and remained very close and attached to Syedna Abd e Ali Saifuddin Maula who wrote MAUSAM E BAHAR, now you must agree syedi sahib wrote in his naseehat the core believes of shariat and everything that the Dai wanted to propagate to his followers, Iam now writing a naseehat of Syedi Sadiq Ali Sahib and after reading that naseehat you will admit that the claim regarding mausam e bahar is false and is purely a Bohtaan on a Dai (may Allah forgive our sins) anyway read this naseehat written with the raza of Syedna Abd Ali Saifuddin Maula ANKHO TOU KHOOL BAARI NI QUDRAT NA WASTAY......JAE SHAY KARI CHE RAB YE TAE HIKMAT NA WASTAY......SHABBIR NA SUNI AA AJAIB FAZAILO.....BAS AQAL GUM CHE AQAL NI HAYRAT NA WASTAY......SOU SHAH OPAR SITAM NE GUZARA YAZEED YE....... MATAM CHE ROUZ O SHAB YE MUSIBAT NA WASTAY.......TIYAARAY KHUDA YE BAKHSHA KHALAF SAIFUDDIN SA.......LAAIQ THA IBTIDA THI KHILAFAT NA WASTAY.......SADIQ ALI HUSSAIN NA MATAM NA DARMIYAN......MASHGHOOL REH TOU APNI SAADAT NA WASTAY. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, now brothers i think a wise person would not need to go into further arguments and the wrong accusation on the zaat e aliya of Syedna Abd e Ali Saifuddin Maula regarding matam e Hussain. i hope this proof is sufficient to counter false claims.

[Sufi monk]

in the above couplet there is no mention of doing matam everywhere especially in marriage,EID or birthday parties.

[salaar]

What about the false. Claim that syedna abd Ali Saifuddin asked not to do matam

[badrijanab]

Bro Ghulam Mohammad, I had been thinking about the false claim regarding matam e Hussain that you forwarded through an earlier post by badri janab, i was wondering how to counter this false statement as not much can be talked about mausam e bahar being not an ordinary book to discuss openly, today i was in the masjid when suddenly an idea came in my mind that this false claim could be proved from other literature of that period and here is what i have achieved. first let me give a brief account of Syedna Abd e Ali Saifuddin Maula, he was born in the year 1776 and died in the year 1817 at the age of 41 years, during Maulas period a group from the community detached themselves and did all kind of fitnat specially in the books of that period, maula did everything to counter their wrong concepts and purify momineens tasawur, this fitnat is called Majdou ni fitnat and i guess this literature under discussion could have the work of no other then this majdou group. Now coming onto the topic, during the period of Syedna Abd e Ali Saifuddin Maula a jayyed and Aalim wrote lots of naseehat, his name is Al Haddul Allama Syedi Sadiq Ali Sahib who did the khidmat of 3 duat karam namely Syedna Yousuf Najmuddin, Syedna Abd e Ali Saifuddin and Syedna Mohammad Izzuddin Maula, Syedi sahib not only wrote naseehat but history of dawat and news about the period in which he lived. Syedi sahib was among the hudood of Syedna and remained very close and attached to Syedna Abd e Ali Saifuddin Maula who wrote MAUSAM E BAHAR, now you must agree syedi sahib wrote in his naseehat the core believes of shariat and everything that the Dai wanted to propagate to his followers, Iam now writing a naseehat of Syedi Sadiq Ali Sahib and after reading that naseehat you will admit that the claim regarding mausam e bahar is false and is purely a Bohtaan on a Dai (may Allah forgive our sins) anyway read this naseehat written with the raza of Syedna Abd Ali Saifuddin Maula ANKHO TOU KHOOL BAARI NI QUDRAT NA WASTAY......JAE SHAY KARI CHE RAB YE TAE HIKMAT NA WASTAY......SHABBIR NA SUNI AA AJAIB FAZAILO.....BAS AQAL GUM CHE AQAL NI HAYRAT NA WASTAY......SOU SHAH OPAR SITAM NE GUZARA YAZEED YE....... MATAM CHE ROUZ O SHAB YE MUSIBAT NA WASTAY.......TIYAARAY KHUDA YE BAKHSHA KHALAF SAIFUDDIN SA.......LAAIQ THA IBTIDA THI KHILAFAT NA WASTAY.......SADIQ ALI HUSSAIN NA MATAM NA DARMIYAN......MASHGHOOL REH TOU APNI SAADAT NA WASTAY. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, now brothers i think a wise person would not need to go into further arguments and the wrong accusation on the zaat e aliya of Syedna Abd e Ali Saifuddin Maula regarding matam e Hussain. i hope this proof is sufficient to counter false claims.

Maatam = shok sabha, sadaqallah, expressing sorrow & grief.

Sadam = head beating. (Sadam has same root word like Saddam).

Ladam = chest / breast beating.

Matam does not mean chest beating. Matam is promoted and chest beating; which is called "ladam" is prohibited. The parasite and selfish Kothar has abused word "matam" to fool gullible Abde Burhan as if matam is chest beating!

When Hamza got martyr Prophet Mohammed saww didn't do chest beating. When Imam Hussain a.s. got martyr Imam Ali Zainul Abideen a.s. didn't do chest beating.

I challenge the PARASITE KOTHAR to prove from the authentic Dawat books (from 46th Dai and before) if any rightful Auliya Allah ever punished themselves by beating their chest and shouting "ya hussain"!

[salaar]

In dawat books wailing and shedding tears is always termed as GIRYA O ZARI, AAH O ZARI, RANJ O ALAM, AANCHO,KOHRAM etc but when the word MATAM is used it is always referred to beating chest (matam ni saff bichi gai), the referred terms of LADAM and SADAM are the dictionary terminologies but never used in dawats books, if you have read mausam e bahar and have the raza come on my PM and i will see how you translate these terminologies and what does Syedna Abd e Ali Maula says about it. so please stop working on the agenda of MAJDOU and stop misguiding and confusing people in your ladam and sadam.

[badrijanab]

In dawat books wailing and shedding tears is always termed as GIRYA O ZARI, AAH O ZARI, RANJ O ALAM, AANCHO,KOHRAM etc but when the word MATAM is used it is always referred to beating chest (matam ni saff bichi gai), the referred terms of LADAM and SADAM are the dictionary terminologies but never used in dawats books, if you have read mausam e bahar and have the raza come on my PM and i will see how you translate these terminologies and what does Syedna Abd e Ali Maula says about it. so please stop working on the agenda of MAJDOU and stop misguiding and confusing people in your ladam and sadam.

Please refer those authentic books of Fatimi Dawat with chapter name and sentence - where word "matam" is used and that sentence convey the meaning of breast beating?

Syyedna Abde Ali Saifuddin sahib a.q. have categorically wrote "chhati kootwu" (breast beating) is prohibited and biddat of Ithna Asheri, unsuitable for Bohra mumineen.

Matam = shok sabha or sadaqallah. "Matam ni saff bichi gai" fits logically with "shok sabha". Breast beating is done individually why orderly saff will be required?!!! Is it instead a dance shooting for movie where breast beating is orchestra in chorus??? I have one suggestion for your parasite Majdou Kothar: they force mumineen to use their optimum power to beat their breast so its noise can reach to ears of Burhanuddin sahib - they should introduce a brand new biddat again where one mumin will beat chest of another mumineen this way more noise will amplify and will be easy to reach your con master.

Still you r not able to quote one instance in history if any rightful Auliya of Fatimi Dawat including Prophet Mohammed saww and Imam Ali Zainul Abideen a.s. if ever did breast beating in namw of their martyrs!!!!

[ghulam muhammed]

Matam = shok sabha or sadaqallah. "Matam ni saff bichi gai" fits logically with "shok sabha". Breast beating is done individually why orderly saff will be required?!!! Is it instead a dance shooting for movie where breast beating is orchestra in chorus???

This reminds me of an article which appeared on this forum some time back which shows how the Matam is mocked by Bohras :-

Different Types Of Bohra Matams

By AlZulfiqar

A Majlis was relayed in all the centres, and the funniest part was in the end when they were instructing to the people to do the matam in the following ways :

1) Zor ma matam karjo bhaiyo thodi second na lidhe aa aakhri matam che
2) Dheere dheere matam karo thodi second na lidhe aa aakhri matam che
3) Hawe khamoshi si dheere dheere matam karo thodi second na lidhe aa aakhri matam che
4) Hawe khamoshi si zor ma matam karo.

My question to the Abde Sayedna's is , whether To do matam in different styles is this not a mockery of matam ?

Matam is matam it should be done by your heart and not like in different styles.

NOW, THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF MATAM DONE BY BOHRAS :-

1). The silent and deadly serious maatam whilst sitting with that earnest look on yr face, imagining yrself as part of the army of Hussain (a.s.).

2). The vocal and vociferous maatam with shouts, screams and an occasional suppressed moan

3). The fatous sobbing maatam where hands beating yr chest is no longer neccessary. This technique is usually employed when u are tired and no longer wish to participate in the frenzy, but still appear engaged and committed.

4). The accelerated tempo maatam, when suddenly a frenzy grips the flock of sheep, as if a tiger has been let loose among the innocent lambs. When this happens all rhythm is lost and everyone goes berserk, all u hear is a disoriented beat totally out of synch. this disturbs yr sense of harmony.

5). The orchestrated maatam wherein there is a smooth, steady maatam beat led by a marasiya party. This is your classic style which is most effective and comforting and continues for a good 5-10 minutes and where u can alternate with either hand for variety or as any of them gets tired. This is usually interrupted when the saheb-e-majlis has found his next page or has taken enough of a break. He then silences the maatam and the marasiya party with a silent but imperious gesture of his hand, laden with deep wisdom, bringing you great relief.

6). The doubled over maatam. In this style one sees clever bohras double over, so bent close to the ground in apparent grief, that u can hardly see them doing maatam. This allows you to escape temporarily from the scene of mayhem.

7). The anticipatory maatam. As the final scenes approach, the preliminary shahadats now out of the way and now little baby Ali Asgher (a.s.) having been martyred, and Abbas Alamdar (a.s.)murdered in his valiant but futile attempt to fetch water from the furat, the crowd gets restless and breaks out into spontaneous maatam, as if slavering and salivating at the impending climax.

. The unpredictable maatam. This happens when invariably an overzealous bohra suddenly in the midst of the majlis calls out "ya hussain" or some such stirring call and over-excited fellow zealots break out on cue into a desperate maatam, unable to contain themselves.

9). The 2 handed maatam. This is usually practised by those honorable and privileged fanatics in the first 2-3 rows for its show value and it also demonstrates the peer pressures under which these poor souls have to labour.

10). The half standing maatam. This style is usually brought into play when certain soul stirring marasiyas are sung and the front row honchos and a few scattered militants get up on their knees and do maatam, thereby displaying their prowess and passion for their religion.

11). The now-this-is-it maatam In the final seconds. the hysterical crowd now sensing the imminent slaughter of Hussain (a.s.), becomes totally alert, incl. those who were so far in a state of dazed stupor, and suddenly sit up straight, hands on their chests ready to start hammering, all their primal urges now in full display, as if readying to take on yazid's army and fight or be slaughtered themselves.

12). After the customary script is played out, with Hussain (a.s.) in sajda and shimr doing his bit with an un-sharp knife and the last second linkage with being loyal to dai and laanat on his dushmano and showering money on tamara sydena etc, the crowd jumps up to its feet and thats when u have the best style of maatam we can display. Good friends and known everyday thaal groups, comfortable in their familiarity with each other, form circles and dance around in perfect synchronicity, in total harmony on the beat and the steps, losing themselves in the hypnotic washing of their guilt and somehow convincing themselves that the more they inflict pain and cruelty upon themselves the more they will become the warriors of Hussain (a.s.) they couldn't be. Its all a great macho display of self-worth practised in the safe confines of an isolated bohra markaz, far removed from the hot sands and battle fields of kerbala, where if by a miracle these cowardly bohras were to find themselves, they would have run for their lives or surrendered immediately with yellow on their hijars (pyjamas).

In my observation, having attended moharram majlises of persians, pathans, other shias, bohras etc, the more jaahil the community and race, the more violent and shocking is their maatam. their styles, and their capacity to inflict harm upon themselves is directly proportional to their latent anger, their pent up rage and their macho images. Its a fascinating study in human psychology.

After engaging in the above ritual, the bohras claim that Matam is a sign of utmost grief when actually one doesnt see a drop of tear in their eyes whilst performing the different types of matams. If the above is not a mockery of the Shahadat of Imam Hussain (a.s.) then what ? Did Hussain (a.s.) gave the greatest of sacrifices including his own near and dear ones so that His sacrifices would be mocked at instead of grasping and emphasising on the real message which was of sacrifice, austerity, humbleness, bravery, love for the deen of Allah (swt) and above all the unity of Ummat-e-Rasul (s.a.w.).

How many bohras come out of the masjid with the real message duly engraved in their minds and soul?

[Sufi monk]

Bro Salaar is in delusion by kothar propaganda, he will take some time to realize reality.

[salaar]

i can recall a naseehat now SAMJHO TAE SAMJHO NA SAMJHA NA SAMJHO......... its true when it is said tamay tamara rastay hamay hamara rastay you keep believing in ladam and sadam we keep our faith strong in matam e Hussain.

[salaar]

I tell you now its matam but these wahabies will not end up here the next point they will raise why do you shed tears for Hussain, this is not a propaganda for today this they are trying for a long time they have not succeeded and inshallah our generations will keep on doing Matam e Hussain and sending laanat on laeen Yazeed and his supporters.

[badrijanab]

I tell you now its matam but these wahabies will not end up here the next point they will raise why do you shed tears for Hussain, this is not a propaganda for today this they are trying for a long time they have not succeeded and inshallah our generations will keep on doing Matam e Hussain and sending laanat on laeen Yazeed and his supporters.

Not only crying on Imam Hussain a.s. is important but also crying on martyr of Imam Aamir a.s. is too important which Parasite Kothar never does. I challenge you: never ever you or others like u in general majlis or during Moharram majlis have never ever heard Shahdat of Imam Aamir a.s. or Shahadat of Imam Haqim bi Amrillah a.s.!!! Your majdou Kothar never even hold majlis on martyr day of any Fatimi Imams!!! Parasite Kothar are anti to our rightful Fatimi Imams.

Propaganda of Wahabi is less dangerous than the propaganda conned, plotted and knitted by Parasite Kothar! 1/2/3 want huqumat and so does your Parasites Kothar - duo have no love for Islam.

"Salaar sahib aap humko samza nahi rahe ho. Aap aur aapke Parasite Kothar ka jhooth aur biddat prove ho gai he, aur apna mooh chupane ke liye keh rahe ho: samjo te samjo...."

Meri previous posts me jo question pooche he unka jawab samjao? Jawab nahi de sakte, to intellectually honest banu aur samjo ki Fatimi Dawat ke mutabik chhati kootwu prohibited he.

[salaar]

hum nahi samjhay chalo aap hum ko samjha dou janab agar aap itnay baray aalim ho tou? mae aap se sawal pochta hoo ke ye batawo ke imam Hussain ki tou majlis ki jati hai magar Imam Ali Zainul Abideen ki majlis kiyo nahi ki jati aur meray moaqqif pae nahi nahi jhoot hai mat kehna.

[salaar]

Mr Badri Janab you talk about Aaimma a.s, do you believe on Imam Jaffar us Sadiq a.s, DO YOU? if yes then keep reading, Imam Jaffar us Sadiq a.s says that on the day of judgment a khaima e noor would be placed near Rasool Allah in the respect of Maulatena Fatima a.s and a munaadi will announce that Oh jamaat of khalaaiq Fatima the daughter of RasoolAllah is coming, lower down your heads, then Fatima would be asked to enter her khaima, when she would put a step on the door she would be asked to look, when Fatima would look she will see that Hussain a.s is standing beside the mimbar of RasoolAllah and there is no Raas mubarak on his body, Maulatena Fatima will raise a loud nara of Aah and she will fall unconscious as a result all the farishtas will sit on their knees and do matam e Hussain, after sometime Fatima will regain her consciousness and will find Hussain a.s wiping her face with his sleeves, after that Qatil e Hussain and his group would be brought in front and they would be thrown in the fire of hell... now Badri janab leave other rivaayat although there are many but cannot be discussed on an open forum but this is just one which is enough to eradicate your false claim about matam, when the imam is saying that all farishtas will do matam e Hussain then me and you are ordinary people, dont consider yourself such a big aalim you can impress people but cannot hide the reality,stop playing the part of salahuddin ayubi.

[salaar]

kalemaat e nooraniya............................ "Momoineen ne lazim che ke Hussain nou gham yaad karay, aap ni shahadat ni zikar ma itna rooe, zoor zoor si rooe, zaar zaar rooe taakay bae sakhta matam karwa laagi jae anay matam karay, itnou matam karay ke bae saakhta aankho si aanso nikli jae, YEH SUNNAT CHE".

[ghulam muhammed]

The Sunnah of Mohamed ar-Rasool Allah (saws) is available to us. His beloved uncle, Hadrat Hamza ibn Abdul Muttalib (r.a.) was martyred in front of his eyes in the Battle of Uhud; Hadrat Hamza’s (r.a.) ears and nose were chopped off by the enemies and his body mutilated; Hind, the wife of Abu Sufyan even cut Hadrat Hamza’s (r.a.) body open and tried to take a bite of the flesh of his heart! But never did Rasool Allah (saws) ever repeat this story again and again on every anniversary of Hadrat Hamza’s death! Never did he (saws) wail and exhort the believers to wail and do matam in congregation on his death anniversary! Never did he (saws) gather all the people in the mosques and give fiery speeches about the ‘shuhadaa’ of Uhud nor did he do matam ! Never!!! He (saws) mourned for three days and exhorted the believers to do the same for all their dead. This was the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah (saws).

[ghulam muhammed]

Now coming onto the topic, during the period of Syedna Abd e Ali Saifuddin Maula a jayyed and Aalim wrote lots of naseehat, his name is Al Haddul Allama Syedi Sadiq Ali Sahib who did the khidmat of 3 duat karam namely Syedna Yousuf Najmuddin, Syedna Abd e Ali Saifuddin and Syedna Mohammad Izzuddin Maula, Syedi sahib not only wrote naseehat but history of dawat and news about the period in which he lived. Syedi sahib was among the hudood of Syedna and remained very close and attached to Syedna Abd e Ali Saifuddin Maula who wrote MAUSAM E BAHAR,

I did some research and found out that the author of Mausam-e-Bahar is Shaikh Muhammad Ali Ibn Mulla Jiwabhai.

[salaar]

didnt i tell you its the majdou group in that period who tarnished tasawwuraat of mumineen their offsprings are there even today in the shape of badri janab, these people with their limited knowledge tries to off course mumineen and take the name of Syedna Abd Ali Saifuddin Moula in connection with their evil propaganda, they produce RAFZ in shariat, and are the actual RAFZIS, be aware of them.

[badrijanab]

Mosam-a-Bahar is the first comprehensive authenticated history book in Lisan-a-Dawat. It was written by "raza mubarak" and vetted by Syyedna Mohammed Burhanuddin sahib (period: 1885 - 1891AD).

This book has letter written by rightful Dai mutlaq Syyedna wa Molana wa aaqa Abde Ali Saifuddin sahib a.q. strictly commanding mumineen to refrain from prohibited act of "chhati kootwu".

Salaar and other Abde-Kothar till date are unable to quote any Fatimi Dawat book (with page # and sentence) that convey if ever breast beating was ever practiced by any Prophet, Wasi, Imam, Hujjat, or Dai.

None of the authorised designated personnel of Fatimi Dawat have never ever done breast beating: they all are at one side. Now on other side we have baap-beta Tahir Saifuddin & Burhanuddin conning mumineen to do what none of the Prophet, Wasi, Imam and Dai have ever done. So who is right and who is wrong - former or latter? Of course Prophet, Wasi, Imam and rightful Dai are right. And TS & MB who introduced this Biddat are wrong.

So everytime you and alike beat breast you are acting against command of Syyedna Abde Ali Saifuddin a.q. and against all Prophet, Wasi, Imam & rightful Dai.

Prove me wrong by quoting Fatimi Dawat books (written before TS period) stating if ever any authority (Nabi, Wasi, Imam, Dai) have ever done breast beating. I have proven you wrong by quoting Mosam-a-Bahar as well pointing to the fact that in Fatimi Dawat literature (before Tahir Saifuddin era) no one did breast beating, it is biddat introduced by baap-beta (TS & MB).

[salaar]

what about my earlier post regarding Imam Jaffar us Sadiq and dont you know that the matam of Imam Hussain was done by the nabi of every zaman including Adam, Nooh, Ibrahim Mousa and Essa a.s i have a detailed article if you are keen i can write it for you but you have this rubbish of ladam and sadam in your head and its useless to give reasoning to people like you.

[badrijanab]

what about my earlier post regarding Imam Jaffar us Sadiq and dont you know that the matam of Imam Hussain was done by the nabi of every zaman including Adam, Nooh, Ibrahim Mousa and Essa a.s i have a detailed article if you are keen i can write it for you but you have this rubbish of ladam and sadam in your head and its useless to give reasoning to people like you.

Don't give unproven & unverified subjective opinions. Give books (risala) name with 'fasal' details that says Imam Sadiq a.s. self did and promoted breast beating?

Letter of rightful Dai Syyedna wa molana Abde Ali Saifuddin sahib a.q. categorically prohibit breast beating. Your majdou and money hungry parasite Kothar are in clear violation of laws of Fatimi Dawat to not to do breast beating. U r conveniently shutting down your eye on Dai Abde Ali Saifuddin sahib a.q. letter!!!

[salaar]

you are again and again quoting about the so called letter of Abd e Ali Saifuddin Maula what proof do you have about its authenticity when we are well aware that majdou group did all kind of rafz in shariat during that period, you are not believing on what Imam Jaffar us Sadiq said we have been listening how anbia did matam e hussain in different zaman, this is an old tactic when you start asking people about the source, havent you heard this in majlis a thousand times and if you want the source thats not at all difficult i can get the exact reference but would you believe on it or you would come up with some other ladam and sadam story?

[badrijanab]

you are again and again quoting about the so called letter of Abd e Ali Saifuddin Maula what proof do you have about its authenticity when we are well aware that majdou group did all kind of rafz in shariat during that period, you are not believing on what Imam Jaffar us Sadiq said we have been listening how anbia did matam e hussain in different zaman, this is an old tactic when you start asking people about the source, havent you heard this in majlis a thousand times and if you want the source thats not at all difficult i can get the exact reference but would you believe on it or you would come up with some other ladam and sadam story?

Proof of letter by Syyedna Abde Ali Saifuddin sahib a.q.: It is inside and part of book 'Mosam Bahar'. This book was written with "raza mubarak" and vetted by Syyedna Mohammed Burhanuddin sahib (grand father of Tahir Saifuddin sahib).

If u will show proof that Imam Sadiq a.s. did breast beating I will check the 'Risala' and if proven correct I will surely correct myself.

To justify wrong and erroneous belief of some selfish devil, word "haraam" cannot be interpreted as "halaal", likewise to justify anti-Islamic erroneous biddat of parasite Kothar word "Matam" cannot be interpreted as "Ladam". We have to go by the dictionary.

If the majdou Kothar don't believe in dictionary then cite at least three logical reasoning for same? And prove from authentic Fatimi literature that "Matam" categorically mean breast beating and harder one beat more sawab he makes, as propogated by your parasite majdou Kothari masters?

[Sufi monk]

salaar, how does matam helps to remember Imam Hussain(s)? we dont do matam on anbiya(s) did we forget them?

[salaar]

Sufi monk, how does namaz helps to remember Allah? we dont offer namaz of Allah do we forget him?

[Sufi monk]

Sufi monk, how does namaz helps to remember Allah? we dont offer namaz of Allah do we forget him?

yes correct,but Namaaz is prescribed in Quraan so there is no alternative for muslim but to pray and remember ALLAH, matam is also mentioned in Qurraan? where?

[salaar]

what is ALIF LAAM MEEM, what is surat e wal Asar, read the third surat in the beginning Wala youwaddo.... what is it about, if you are unaware what can i do.

[Sufi monk]

what is ALIF LAAM MEEM, what is surat e wal Asar, read the third surat in the beginning Wala youwaddo.... what is it about, if you are unaware what can i do.

so you mean all this ayat proves and confirms every one should do matam?

you have a chance to get noble price if you can give meaning of ALIF LAAM MIM, because even the biggest ulemaa dont suggest meaning of this ayat.

so you claim to know meaning of it correct?

[salaar]

this is where you people are blind guessing things, just think why would Allah write anything without a meaning or maybe its only for those who are aware of the true lailatul qadar.

[Sufi monk]

this is where you people are blind guessing things, just think why would Allah write anything without a meaning or maybe its only for those who are aware of the true lailatul qadar.

now from ALIF LAAM MIM you jump on to lailulatul qadr, first thing first brother, please enlighten us first with the meaning of ALIF LAAM MIM.

every muslim knows every word in Quraan has meaning, so if you know the meaning of ALIF LAAM MIM do tell us.

then we shall discuss lailatul qadr as well.

awaiting reply

[salaar]

sorry sir i dont know or may not be permitted to share that and leave aside lailatul qadar, perhaps you can consider we are unaware of the meaning of alif laam meem if that satisfies your argument. Abdullah bin Abbas quotes that one night Maula Ali started explaining the fazeelat and the meaning of the dot of Bismillah after Isha prayers, he continued throughout the night till fajar azan and by that time the bayan was not completed,