What is the right Islam?

[dawedaar]

@anajmi, that can also be said about the Sunnis/Wahabbis who are following wrong Islam!

The majority will always remain silent. It requires a vocal minority to get the job done. Do not bank upon the majority doing anything. The majority simply follows the leaders. If you want to overthrow the leaders, you need the right minority.

[anajmi]

Anyone who follows the Quran and the Sunnah is following the right Islam. Anyone who follows idols is following the wrong Islam. An idol could be a mullah, a maula, an Imam etc etc. Especially if the the mullah, maula, Imam are going against the commandments of the Quran and the Sunnah of the prophet (saw).

[KA786110]

Anyone who follows the Quran and the Sunnah is following the right Islam. Anyone who follows idols is following the wrong Islam. An idol could be a mullah, a maula, an Imam etc etc. Especially if the the mullah, maula, Imam are going against the commandments of the Quran and the Sunnah of the prophet (saw).

You at it again. LOL.

A Muslim is anyone who recites Shahada and has accepted Islam. There is no right or wrong Islam. Each madhab of Islam interprets it differently.

[anajmi]

Even the people who murdered the innocent bus riders in Pakistan, according to some, recited the shahadah and accepted Islam. According to you, murdering innocents is just a different interpretation?

No!! Accepting Islam means accepting the Quran and the Sunnah of the prophet (saw) fully. Otherwise, you haven't accepted Islam.

[KA786110]

Even the people who murdered the innocent bus riders in Pakistan, according to some, recited the shahadah and accepted Islam. According to you, murdering innocents is just a different interpretation?

You are much smarter than that. The perpetrators of that heinous act were not acting in Islamic way. They were muslims but their actions were not. And they will have to pay for it dearly on the day of judgement.

No!! Accepting Islam means accepting the Quran and the Sunnah of the prophet (saw) fully. Otherwise, you haven't accepted Islam.

What is the difference between a muslim and Ahle Imaan? You know all this. We have gone through this before!!!

[anajmi]

The perpetrators of that heinous act were not acting in Islamic way.

Correct. They were just acting according to their interpretation. Something that you seem to be defending!!

What is the difference between a muslim and Ahle Imaan? You know all this. We have gone through this before!!!

This is simple. A muslim is one who has accepted Islam and acts according to it. Ahle Imaan are those that firmly believe in their Islamic acts as commands of God. A muslim acts Islamically, but might still have doubts. An ahle Imaan doesn't have these doubts.

[anajmi]

From the great Quran

49:14

قَالَتِ الْأَعْرَابُ آمَنَّا قُل لَّمْ تُؤْمِنُوا وَلَكِن قُولُوا أَسْلَمْنَا وَلَمَّا يَدْخُلِ الْإِيمَانُ فِي قُلُوبِكُمْ وَإِن تُطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ لَا يَلِتْكُم مِّنْ أَعْمَالِكُمْ شَيْئًا إِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ

THE BEDOUIN say, “We have attained to faith.” Say [unto them, O Muhammad]: “You have not [yet] attained to faith; you should [rather] say, ‘We have surrendered’ (or simply - we have become muslims) - for [true] faith has not yet entered your hearts (you are not mumin yet). But if you [truly] pay heed unto God and His Apostle, He will not let the least of your deeds go to waste: [18] for, behold, God is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace.”

italics and underline are mine. As can be seen above. A muslim is one who has surrendered to Islam and acts Islamically, but faith has not yet entered his heart. Hence he is asked only to refer to himself as a muslim only. But Allah promises that as long as you keep acting Islamically, your deeds will not go to waste.

[KA786110]

The perpetrators of that heinous act were not acting in Islamic way.

Correct. They were just acting according to their interpretation. Something that you seem to be defending!!

You are at it again. Taking things out of context. Very sly.
This is what I said: The perpetrators of that heinous act were not acting in Islamic way. They were muslims but their actions were not. And they will have to pay for it dearly on the day of judgement.

I am not defending them. Anyway I do not want to derail this thread from its main topic.

[Biradar]

Correct. They were just acting according to their interpretation. Something that you seem to be defending!!

You are at it again. Taking things out of context. Very sly.
This is what I said: The perpetrators of that heinous act were not acting in Islamic way. They were muslims but their actions were not. And they will have to pay for it dearly on the day of judgement.

I am not defending them. Anyway I do not want to derail this thread from its main topic.

Who decides what is Islamic way? You? Anajmi? Ismaili Fanatic? White guy in suit? Catholic bishop? If you look at the justifications provided by the fanatics (does not matter what flavor of fanatic) they will quote extensive hadith, Quranic verses etc. Anajmi is correct, that it is an interpretation, and if one says that any interpretation is correct, then their actions are Islamic.

[KA786110]

My apologies to everyone for lengthening this unrelated series:

Killing innocent people is Islamic in your opinion then? (A question for you)

Here is what I said:

A Muslim is anyone who recites Shahada and has accepted Islam. There is no right or wrong Islam. Each madhab of Islam interprets it differently.

All I said was that there is only one Islam but many interpretations. I did not say any one or all interpretations are correct or incorrect. Actions of people are bigger indicators of their true nature. Think calmly before jumping to conclusion.

[Biradar]

My apologies to everyone for lengthening this unrelated series:

Killing innocent people is Islamic in your opinion then?

No. However, you have made the claim that all interpretations are equally valid. You said:

"There is no right or wrong Islam. Each madhab of Islam interprets it differently."

All the terrorist need to do is to quote this and say they interpret Islam differently than you. Then, logically, you (i.e. KA786110) must accept that this is valid. Not me. It seems anajmi also would not accept it. (Sad to say, I have been agreeing with anajmi recently. Never knew this day would come).

[KA786110]

Here is what I said:

A Muslim is anyone who recites Shahada and has accepted Islam. There is no right or wrong Islam. Each madhab of Islam interprets it differently.

All I said was that there is only one Islam but many interpretations. I did not say any one or all interpretations are correct or incorrect. Actions of people are bigger indicators of their true nature. Think calmly before jumping to conclusion.

[Biradar]

Here is what I said:

A Muslim is anyone who recites Shahada and has accepted Islam. There is no right or wrong Islam. Each madhab of Islam interprets it differently.

All I said was that there is only one Islam but many interpretations. I did not say any one or all interpretations are correct or incorrect. Actions of people are bigger indicators of their true nature. Think calmly before jumping to conclusion.

Please explain the bolded part then. You say, there is no right or wrong Islam. So, how do you (i.e. KA786110) decide that terrorists are on "wrong" Islam, when there is no such thing (i.e according to you KA786110)?

[KA786110]

Here is what I said:

A Muslim is anyone who recites Shahada and has accepted Islam. There is no right or wrong Islam. Each madhab of Islam interprets it differently.

All I said was that there is only one Islam but many interpretations. I did not say any one or all interpretations are correct or incorrect. Actions of people are bigger indicators of their true nature. Think calmly before jumping to conclusion.

Please explain the bolded part then. You say, there is no right or wrong Islam.
Please re-read the highlighted section.

So, how do you (i.e. KA786110) decide that terrorists are on "wrong" Islam, when there is no such thing (i.e according to you KA786110)?

How do I decide that terrorists are "wrong" : Their actions (such as suicide, killing innocent people etc) puts them in wrong.

[anajmi]

Well, their actions are Islamic according to their interpretation.

We can go around in circles over and over again. The bottom line is that one needs to follow the Quran and the Sunnah of the prophet (saw) and refer to them to figure out what is wrong and what is right. I can say your Imam is wrong, but can I point it out from the Quran and the Sunnah? If I can, then I am right and you are wrong.

I can also say that the killing of people on the bus was wrong and I can point it out from the Quran and the Sunnah of the prophet (saw). Instead of dancing around all over the place, hold on tightly to the rope that Allah has provided us all. The Quran and the Sunnah will decide the faith of us all. Not an Imam and not a Dai!!

[KA786110]

As I said their actions go against moral fiber of Islam. Sanctity of life, tolerance, kindness etc. But you would not understand.
Because ... Well I could go on but no.

[anajmi]

As I said their actions go against moral fiber of Islam.

You mean your interpretation of Islam right?

[Bohra spring]

Well, their actions are Islamic according to their interpretation.

We can go around in circles over and over again. The bottom line is that one needs to follow the Quran and the Sunnah of the prophet (saw) and refer to them to figure out what is wrong and what is right. I can say your Imam is wrong, but can I point it out from the Quran and the Sunnah? If I can, then I am right and you are wrong.

I can also say that the killing of people on the bus was wrong and I can point it out from the Quran and the Sunnah of the prophet (saw). Instead of dancing around all over the place, hold on tightly to the rope that Allah has provided us all. The Quran and the Sunnah will decide the faith of us all. Not an Imam and not a Dai!!

We debate who is right and wrong but history is also presending difficult evidence ...some questions keep coming up, do we have faith because it is convenient . Who can arbitrate what is fact and not. It is unfair to claim that Shia's are wrong vs Sunni. ..both are relying on 1000 years of beleif systems.

quran
. Thus a group of Muslims gradually became literate. As it was initially spoken, the Quran was recorded on tablets, bones, and the wide, flat ends of date palm fronds. Most suras were in use amongst early Muslims since they are mentioned in numerous sayings by both Sunni and Shia sources, relating Muhammad's use of the Quran as a call to Islam, the making of prayer and the manner of recitation. However, the Quran did not exist in book form at the time of Muhammad's death in 632.[29][30][31] There is agreement among scholars that Muhammad himself did not write down the revelation.[32]

suunah

These documents and books of hadith remained with the companions who wrote them after the death of Prophet Mohammad (pbuh). These books were scattered amongst the companions and were not collected in large collections. In addition to that, many hadith were memorized by the companions, and were transmitted to their students during halaqa (classes) of studying Islam orally.


After the death of Muhammad there was a time when Uthman the third Caliph of Islam ordered to burn all the copies of Quran except one. It was believed that there were variations in text and recitation practice of Quran at that time and so Uthman took this step. According to Quran and Hadith, Muhammad was the last prophet of Islam. So Uthman was not a prophet and we do not know whether he kept the valid and original Quran or destroyed it? We also do not know how he determined which one was the correct version of Quran?

[anajmi]

So Uthman was not a prophet and we do not know whether he kept the valid and original Quran or destroyed it? We also do not know how he determined which one was the correct version of Quran?

Actually, Allah has himself promised to protect the Quran in the Quran. Of course, if you consider the Quran to have been corrupted, then obviously it is not the word of God.

Second, Hazrat Umar (RA) has done an unfathomable service to the muslim Ummah by consolidating the Quran into the form that it exists today. He didn't burn the Quran like some christian priests burn it today. He burned the bits and pieces that existed with different people to ensure that the whole book existed together in its complete form. There were minor variations that were destroyed and may Allah bless him for that. There were many huffaz during the time of Umar who would've easily validated the Quran. Even today, if you were to burn every hard and soft copy of the Quran on earth, we can come up with an exact replica within a matter of hours because of the millions of huffaz around the globe who have preserved the Quran in their hearts. And no Dai or Imam is needed for this purpose!!

[Muslim First]

ASAK brothers

If you ask Prophet who is Muslim or what is wright Islam
He has said following in Authentic Ahadith.

Hadith no: 8
Narrated / Authority of: Ibn Umar
Allah's Apostle said: Islam is based on (the following) five (principles):
1. To testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and Muhammad is Allah's Apostle.
2. To offer the (compulsory congregational) prayers dutifully and perfectly.
3. To pay Zakat (i.e. obligatory charity) .
4. To perform Hajj. (i.e. Pilgrimage to Mecca)
5. To observe fast during the month of Ramadan.


Hadith no: 25
Narrated / Authority of: Ibn Umar
Allah's Messenger said:
"I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Messenger of Allah, and perform as-salat [perform as-salat (prayers)] and give zakat (obligatory charity) so if they perform all that, then they save their lives and properties from me except for Islamic laws, and their reckoning (accounts) will be with (done by) Allah."

Hadith no: 45
The Holy Prophet said:
“Whoever says prayers as we do, and faces our Qibla, and eats the meat slaughtered by us, he is a Muslim, for whom is the covenant of God and the covenant of the messenger of God, so violate not the covenant of God.”
(Bukhari, Book of Prayer; Book 8, ch. 28; vol. i, p. 222)

Now all Muslim except Ismaili brothers accept this. Let them accept this and then we can argue about what is proper Salat.
Salat is established Sunnah for both mainstream Sunnis and Shias. Only Agakhani Ismaili Muslim differ

Salaam

[Bohra spring]

So Uthman was not a prophet and we do not know whether he kept the valid and original Quran or destroyed it? We also do not know how he determined which one was the correct version of Quran?

Actually, Allah has himself promised to protect the Quran in the Quran. Of course, if you consider the Quran to have been corrupted, then obviously it is not the word of God.

Second, Hazrat Umar (RA) has done an unfathomable service to the muslim Ummah by consolidating the Quran into the form that it exists today. He didn't burn the Quran like some christian priests burn it today. He burned the bits and pieces that existed with different people to ensure that the whole book existed together in its complete form. There were minor variations that were destroyed and may Allah bless him for that. There were many huffaz during the time of Umar who would've easily validated the Quran. Even today, if you were to burn every hard and soft copy of the Quran on earth, we can come up with an exact replica within a matter of hours because of the millions of huffaz around the globe who have preserved the Quran in their hearts. And no Dai or Imam is needed for this purpose!!

exactly presenting to a Shia that the service of Uthman whether sincere or not is devine is really pointless ,further more your argument is based on your personal belief system that you have accepted. Is it really absolute

likewise a Shia believes the knowledge in their Imam is superior to the works of a khalifa that get translated by mortals whether right or wrong is poles apart

unfortunately these arguments lead to emotional surge that sometimes leads to intolerance.

[anajmi]

Fortunately, the work of Hazrat Umat is on display on the shelf of every muslim home, shia or sunni. The work of the shia Imam? Ah well!!!!

[topiwala]

Fortunately, the work of Hazrat Umat is on display on the shelf of every muslim home, shia or sunni. The work of the shia Imam? Ah well!!!!

On doing some google search I found that Your awwal was the main foundation of your thinking , see how western intellectuals have also began studying Islam and arriving on wrong conclusions by studying the life of your Abu bakra :

http://politics.stackexchange.com/a/7961/1686

Intra Muslim Politics and ISIS

This is not the first time that a caliphate has been declared and there is opposition from Muslims themselves who did not wish to compromise their freedom for caliphate, such people were decried as apostate who fought them and did not pay Zakat by none other then the most respected and the first caliph of Islam interestingly with the same name:Abu Bakr:

The Ridda wars (Arabic: حروب الردة), also known as the Wars of Apostasy, were a series of military campaigns launched by the Caliph Abu Bakr against rebel Arabian tribes during 632 and 633 AD, just after Muhammad died. The rebels' position was that they had submitted to Muhammad as the prophet of God, but owed nothing to Abu Bakr.

These people were considered to be rebels and apostates by the first caliph and he actively fought them and even enslaved them which is actually more worse then what ISIS does as ISIS does not enslave women who are sunnis even if they don't pledge allegiance to their caliph. Also a widespread apostasy was reported:

In the fourth week of August 632, Abu Bakr moved to Zhu Qissa with all available fighting forces. There he planned the strategy of the Campaign of the Apostasy to deal with the various enemies who occupied the entire land of Arabia except for the small area in the possession of the Muslims. 5 The battles which he had fought recently against the apostate concentrations at Zhu Qissa and Abraq were in the nature of immediate preventive action to protect Medina and discourage further offensives by the enemy. These actions enabled Abu Bakr to secure a base from which he could fight the major campaign that lay ahead, thus gaining time for the preparation and launching of his main forces. Abu Bakr had to fight not one but several enemies: Tulayha at Buzakha, Malik bin Nuwaira at Butah, Musaylima at Yamamah. He had to deal with widespread apostasy on the eastern and southern coasts of Arabia: in Bahrain, in Oman, in Mahra, in Hadhramaut and in Yemen. There was apostasy in the region south and east of Mecca and by the Quza'a in northern Arabia.

The word apostasy is used even for cases where people believed in Muhammad but refused to recognize the first caliph Abu Bakr. Hence we know exactly from where ISIS is drawing its political inspiration from.

[qutub_mamajiwala]

Fortunately, the work of Hazrat Umat is on display on the shelf of every muslim home, shia or sunni. The work of the shia Imam? Ah well!!!!

fortunately, the work of his followers the likes of saudi monarch and isis and thier ideology is also on full display to the world

[JC]

Fortunately, the work of Hazrat Umat is on display on the shelf of every muslim home, shia or sunni. The work of the shia Imam? Ah well!!!!

fortunately, the work of his followers the likes of saudi monarch and isis and thier ideology is also on full display to the world

And what is Shai leading country of Iran doing?? What are Houthis doing?? What is Hizb Allah doing?? What is Bahaar Al-Asad doing??

'Everybdoy' is naked in this 'religious' hamman ............. you cannot single out any one sect or group..!!!

The key is to say 'I am Right' ........... you MAY be Right too ......... and let Allah be judge of that. Lets Live and let others live, in peace!!

[anajmi]

fortunately, the work of his followers the likes of saudi monarch and isis and thier ideology is also on full display to the world

Now all we need is for the great shia Imam to come out of hiding and fix it all. No better time to put forth a fantastic display of his powers than now!!

[araz5253]

Fortunately, the work of Hazrat Umat is on display on the shelf of every muslim home, shia or sunni. The work of the shia Imam? Ah well!!!!

On doing some google search I found that Your awwal was the main foundation of your thinking , see how western intellectuals have also began studying Islam and arriving on wrong conclusions by studying the life of your Abu bakra :

http://politics.stackexchange.com/a/7961/1686

Intra Muslim Politics and ISIS

This is not the first time that a caliphate has been declared and there is opposition from Muslims themselves who did not wish to compromise their freedom for caliphate, such people were decried as apostate who fought them and did not pay Zakat by none other then the most respected and the first caliph of Islam interestingly with the same name:Abu Bakr:

The Ridda wars (Arabic: حروب الردة), also known as the Wars of Apostasy, were a series of military campaigns launched by the Caliph Abu Bakr against rebel Arabian tribes during 632 and 633 AD, just after Muhammad died. The rebels' position was that they had submitted to Muhammad as the prophet of God, but owed nothing to Abu Bakr.

These people were considered to be rebels and apostates by the first caliph and he actively fought them and even enslaved them which is actually more worse then what ISIS does as ISIS does not enslave women who are sunnis even if they don't pledge allegiance to their caliph. Also a widespread apostasy was reported:

In the fourth week of August 632, Abu Bakr moved to Zhu Qissa with all available fighting forces. There he planned the strategy of the Campaign of the Apostasy to deal with the various enemies who occupied the entire land of Arabia except for the small area in the possession of the Muslims. 5 The battles which he had fought recently against the apostate concentrations at Zhu Qissa and Abraq were in the nature of immediate preventive action to protect Medina and discourage further offensives by the enemy. These actions enabled Abu Bakr to secure a base from which he could fight the major campaign that lay ahead, thus gaining time for the preparation and launching of his main forces. Abu Bakr had to fight not one but several enemies: Tulayha at Buzakha, Malik bin Nuwaira at Butah, Musaylima at Yamamah. He had to deal with widespread apostasy on the eastern and southern coasts of Arabia: in Bahrain, in Oman, in Mahra, in Hadhramaut and in Yemen. There was apostasy in the region south and east of Mecca and by the Quza'a in northern Arabia.

The word apostasy is used even for cases where people believed in Muhammad but refused to recognize the first caliph Abu Bakr. Hence we know exactly from where ISIS is drawing its political inspiration from.

Ofcourse what Hazrat Abu Bakr RA did was correct even Imam Ali RA participated in the riddah wars. Islam does place emphasis on single leadership and all the sahabas and the best scholars , salaf etc pledged allegiance to a caliph.

[KA786110]

fortunately, the work of his followers the likes of saudi monarch and isis and thier ideology is also on full display to the world

And what is Shai leading country of Iran doing?? What are Houthis doing?? What is Hizb Allah doing?? What is Bahaar Al-Asad doing??

'Everybdoy' is naked in this 'religious' hamman ............. you cannot single out any one sect or group..!!!

The key is to say 'I am Right' ........... you MAY be Right too ......... and let Allah be judge of that. Lets Live and let others live, in peace!!

I wish all people would believe in your philosophy of 'Live and Let Live'. But those who started this offshoot discussion are not at all interested in such highly noble and Islamic precept.

[fayyaaz]

Wisely, Admin deleted several of Yazid-lover's posts in extremely bad taste involving Fatima Zahra whom the Prophet referred to as "the Leader of the women of Paradise" and "the Mother of her Father".

Something to ponder over:

"History is the most dangerous product ever concocted by the chemistry of the intellect. It causes dreams, inebriates nations, saddles them with false memories … keeps their old sores running, torments them when they are not at rest, and induces in them megalomania and the mania of persecution."

PAUL VALÉRY

[KA786110]

@Admin: Thank you. Thank you. Really appreciate your moderation of this forum.