GULF-PIG-TB JAWAB DO

[africawalla]

Mazoom sahebs children have all got doctorates from prominent Universities in UK and Middle east

[Hussain_KSA]

Brother Africawala,

It's "Mazoon" not Mazoom, Sorry for correction.

[Hussain_KSA]

This is the reason why there is step behaviour with the Mazoon saheb and his family by Syedena and people around him. Surat incident is enough to remind the infighting.

[Al Zulfiqar]

Originally posted by africawalla:
Mazoom sahebs children have all got doctorates from prominent Universities in UK and Middle east

precisely! u proved my point african. its because the mazoon's children do not have much of future hope in earning a cut from haraam ni kamai that they were forced to get higher education!

btw, can u please name these prominent univ's of the middle east? i have an intimate knowledge of the middle-east and do not know of a single one! or is this just one more of yr classic, bad smelling phuski's?

[africawalla]

Al-Azaar Egypt

[tahir]

It is Al-Azhar.

[Muslim]

http://www.tahiyaat.com/Logo/familymembers.htm

[Gursevak]

Muslim,

WOW - what a list

[africawalla]

Zulfikar,

Does this answer your question on Mazoon's children qualifications and universities

[accountability]

Dr.Mustansir Barma

is he a practicing bohra.

Lokhandwalas are also pseudo bohras. Present bohra administration are keeping them in the fold, because they are too precious to loose.

I have a list of prominent bohras, but can you call them bohras, is another question.

Hatim Alvi
May 06, 1938 to May 05, 1939
6th mayor of karachi

Mazhar Hussain
Managing director of Karachi Electric supply .

Dr. Sadiq alvi
Prominent philanthropist

Fakhruddin G Ibrahim
Judge of sindh high court
Governer Sindh

and the list goes on. My questions is, why these and other prominent bohras do not see eye to eye with the religious establishment.

[accountability]

Africa wala, Getting bachelors and masters in arts is not such a big deal, I am a post graduate engineer, my daughter has bachelors in behavioural sciene from university of toronto. A friend of mine has Ph.D in chemical engineering.

Having said this all, But mazoon saheb is sidelined, and not actual part of present administration. What about syedna saheb's sons and daughters, and grand children.

[Arif]

Friends,

My post was for the dawoodi bohra community and not for the orthos or reformist. But it seems that people on this site are too used to criticizing every post written in favor of the community.

BTW: My post was an reply to Makberi's post where he mentioned

....but how many big bohra businesses do we know of.....are we always goin to remain a bunch of small time shop owners.....

I just wanted to give few examples saying we are not a bunch of mere shop owners. I do not understand what is wrong with that

since you are in the US, you must be attending too many dareeses and majlises where you're led to believe that.You claim to be pious and devoted and pray three times a day . . .and identify yourself as a typical Bohra.

Again Ulludin, go read my earlier post where I have clearly mentioned that I have not been to masjid/markaz for past many years. As I have told you before read and learn.

A ship in a harbour is safe, but that is not what ships are for.
~ John A. Shedd.

Tahir this qoute idealy describes you my friend. You call yourself a reformist at heart while going as a typical bohri to masjid/markaz everyday on a daily basis. There is another qoute for people like you.

"He does not believe who does not live according to his belief."
Thomas Fuller

So what have you done for the upliftment of community?

BTW: This is the question for all the people who have replied to my post. What are your personal achievements? How many of you have made our community proud in any of the fields that Tahir has mentioned?

One more qoute before I end this post

"Go put your creed into your deed."
Ralph Waldo Emerson

[accountability]

"But when Syedna was admitted in the hospital recently, you started praying for his speedy recovery and good health."

This is not hypocracy. I cannot cherish on one's suffering. This is what I believe in. And you are wrong, I have never criticized syedna saheb himself. Never uttered a word, disrespectful. I have every right to criticize the administration, including his sons, if they are part of the administration. Our religion only require us to believe in Dai, Mazoon, and Mukasir. Dai's off springs have no special place, neither should they claim.

[accountability]

"So what have you done for the upliftment of community?"

there are lot of people, who have done silently for the community, including ones, who are on this forum.

Your question is not valid, Beacuse your addressees are not the one, who claim to guide and lead people, you can not ask non claiment to prove the claim.

Ask yourself a question. Are you becoming and sincere to what you are writing .

if the answer is negetive, then you have found your answers.

[Arif]

there are lot of people, who have done silently for the community, including ones, who are on this forum.

For example???

Your question is not valid, Beacuse your addressees are not the one, who claim to guide and lead people, you can not ask non claiment to prove the claim

A/C: I have observed ever since I started writing on this site that people leave no stone unturned to criticize our community. And if they are non claiment as you say then they do not have any rights to criticize other's achievements however, small and meagre they maybe.

Ask yourself a question. Are you becoming and sincere to what you are writing .

A/C: Yes I am.. I always believe that one should be fair in his/her treatment towards others whether in words or deeds.

there are lot of people, who have done silently for the community, including ones, who are on this forum.

Now that is not the answer to my question. My question was whether anybody falls in the list mentioned by Tahir which is "I am interested to know the names of luminaries in sports, entertainment, politics, social work, army, administration etc that bohras have produced as compared to "other muslims".

Even I have silently done a lot for others in my life. But as I said that is not my question.

if the answer is negetive, then you have found your answers.

See this reflects your mentality. Without asking me you jumped to the -ve conclusion

Also, please note that the spelling of "negetive" is wrong. Now should I assume that your thinking is quite shallow because you do not know the correct spelling of negative.

BTW: Some people on this site are only interested in doing spell check and grammar check on other's posts. Do not insult your intelligence by joing them...

[Arif]

sorry "joing them... " should spell "joining them"

[accountability]

I have listed a few prominent bohras earlier. I think, it escaped your attention.

[makberi]

i dont think there is any denying the fact that most bohras are mere shop owners....yes a few have achieved prominence.....but their numbers r small..... i dint intend to disrespect or belittle the achievements of those who have achieved some success in life...i was only trying to point out that the general narrow mindedness of the bohra society has acted as a major hindrance in the community to achieve its true potential.....we need to be more open to different cultures n ideas and get rid of our ghettoistic tendencies.....n i also find the presnet bohra leadership to be responsible.....what m doing for the community u ask???...nothing...i accept it honestly...but someday i hope to show by example

[Danish]

Originally posted by Al Zulfiqar:
if u or anyone thinks that democracy will remove the corruption at the jamat level and force aamils to behave, then ponder over this:

the ex-syedna commits open adultery with his living brother's wife. when his first wife (burhanuddin's mother) objects, he 'hastens' the departure of his brother from this world, then achieves ditto with his first wife, abuses and persecutes her father, (his own uncle) until he dies of trauma and stress. then the opposition being completely eliminated or cowed down by bullying and intimidation, he marries said brother's wife!

this is the same syedna who in a repeat pattern of his magalomaniac behaviour, connives to steal from Chandbhai seth's galla and constructs a lavish palace for himself, seeks worldly titles, spreads terror among his community, appropriates all bohra trust and jammat properties worldwide, declares baraat on untold thousands, flagrantly violates the sacred trust placed in him as a spiritual leader, makes brazen changes in the founding principles of our faith, even contradicting the daim-ul-islam, and so on and so on...[QB]

I am sombrely touched by the above unprecedented claims. I believe a person or persons is/are innocent until proven guilty.

[QB]the proof of all this is available in details within a book written by syedi lukmani whose descendants have made london their home. i have said earlier that i have a copy, but because it was given to me under oath of confidentiality, i will not reproduce it here. but anyone is free and welcome to contact the family in london and obtain the info for themselves.

recently, i have heard that they are now open after decades of silence and anyone genuinely interested can obtain all the precise details, incl. dates, personalities involved, court documents, police records etc.

If all the above claims can now be genuinely exposed, I'd suggest you or the "Londoner" put them wise rather than beating around the bush. I'm as much curious and fascinated by such exceptional novels as any sincere bohra layman. I'm sure the news viz-a-viz reality would be worth the mention to wake us all up. By all means, you can email me the entire "discovery" at lillychilly2000@yahoo.com if you'd like.

[Danish]

Originally posted by Al Zulfiqar:
if u or anyone thinks that democracy will remove the corruption at the jamat level and force aamils to behave, then ponder over this:

the ex-syedna commits open adultery with his living brother's wife. when his first wife (burhanuddin's mother) objects, he 'hastens' the departure of his brother from this world, then achieves ditto with his first wife, abuses and persecutes her father, (his own uncle) until he dies of trauma and stress. then the opposition being completely eliminated or cowed down by bullying and intimidation, he marries said brother's wife!

this is the same syedna who in a repeat pattern of his magalomaniac behaviour, connives to steal from Chandbhai seth's galla and constructs a lavish palace for himself, seeks worldly titles, spreads terror among his community, appropriates all bohra trust and jammat properties worldwide, declares baraat on untold thousands, flagrantly violates the sacred trust placed in him as a spiritual leader, makes brazen changes in the founding principles of our faith, even contradicting the daim-ul-islam, and so on and so on...

I am sombrely touched by the above unprecedented claims. I believe a person or persons is/are innocent until proven guilty.

the proof of all this is available in details within a book written by syedi lukmani whose descendants have made london their home. i have said earlier that i have a copy, but because it was given to me under oath of confidentiality, i will not reproduce it here. but anyone is free and welcome to contact the family in london and obtain the info for themselves.

recently, i have heard that they are now open after decades of silence and anyone genuinely interested can obtain all the precise details, incl. dates, personalities involved, court documents, police records etc.

If all the above claims can now be genuinely exposed, I'd suggest you or the "Londoner" put them wise rather than beating around the bush. I'm as much curious and fascinated by such exceptional novels as any sincere bohra layman. I'm sure the news viz-a-viz reality would be worth the mention to wake us all up. By all means, you can email me the entire "discovery" at lillychilly2000@yahoo.com if you'd like.

[tahir]

When one doesn't have to work to support his/her family, have immense resources and spare time at disposal, getting impressive educational degrees is very easy. In the end, how do you utilise your formal education is what that matters. Lets talk about the contribution of mazoon's family to humanity (or atleast bohra community)

The people who flew planes into WTC on 9/11 were highly educated pilots.

[tahir]

Originally posted by Aarif:
My question was whether anybody falls in the list mentioned by Tahir which is "I am interested to know the names of luminaries in sports, entertainment, politics, social work, army, administration etc that bohras have produced as compared to "other muslims".

You have to answer that question since it was you who insisted that bohras are achievers as compared to other muslims. I simply asked facts. Others didn't claim anything to start with so why should you ask?

Weird way of debating I must say....

[Arif]

You have to answer that question since it was you who insisted that bohras are achievers as compared to other muslims. I simply asked facts. Others didn't claim anything to start with so why should you ask?

Abbas Alibhai Burmawalla and Mastan Alibhai Burmawalla are bohris

Also, someone has told me that Asha Parekh the famous cine star is a half dawoodi bohra. Her mother is a bohri.

There might be other names that I will try and dig out for you.

The people who flew planes into WTC on 9/11 were highly educated pilots.

Fortunately they were not bohras. This is what I was trying to focus on. Bohras are atleast not identified as terrorists.. They do not misuse their education in killing people. Please give them some credit for that.

Weird way of debating I must say....

Dear Tahir, I am impressed by your honesty. The way you generally ask questions about our community on this site makes your intention very obvious that you are primarily interested in insulting and criticizing the entire community. There is nice sher for this:

Haai kaun na mar jaaye iss saadgi pe
Qatl bhi karte hein aur haath mein talwaar bhi nahin

From your past posts that I have read on this site, it is quite clear what you think about the community in which you were born. And wait a minute you always call yourself a true Dawoodi bohra whenever you argue with others.

Now believe me this is really wierd logic.

[Al Zulfiqar]

Originally posted by Danish:

If all the above claims can now be genuinely exposed, I'd suggest you or the "Londoner" put them wise rather than beating around the bush. I'm as much curious and fascinated by such exceptional novels as any sincere bohra layman. I'm sure the news viz-a-viz reality would be worth the mention to wake us all up. By all means, you can email me the entire "discovery" at lillychilly2000@yahoo.com if you'd like.

danish, u dont seriously expect me to spoon-feed u now, do u? if u are interested, get off yr rocking chair and go search for the facts as i did. sitting back and expecting the proof to be brought to u so that u will decide, while the kothar is screwing u left and right, does that make any sense?

why dont u initiate contacts with the people i have mentioned in london if u are really as serious as u claim to be? or be bold enough to go and question yr amil. his reaction will be yr answer.

[tahir]

Originally posted by Aarif:
The way you generally ask questions about our community on this site makes your intention very obvious that you are primarily interested in insulting and criticizing the entire community.

Bohra dawat has rached this woeful state just because people did't ask questions.

[Arif]

Bohra dawat has rached this woeful state just because people did't ask questions.

I agree with you on that but not completely. Yes people definitely need to ask questions. But just asking questions make no sense. Look at our Indian goverment. We have the majority and opposition. The opposition asks lot of questions, throw paper missiles in the parliament etc. But that has not solved any problems like corruption,terrorism,poverty etc. So my friend actions speak louder then words.

Also, I have seen people on this forum generally comparing themselves with Imaam Husain and his army and Syedna and Kothar with Yazid. Now just imagine people like you as members of Husain's army. If that would have been the case then members of Husain's army would have been hiding behind fake IDs and cursing Yazid all the time while in reality going and dining and wining with him every other day as you do. Now just think what Islam would have been today if Husain's army would have had people like you.

So again one cannot bring reforms just by asking the same monotonous questions for years and years.

BTW: How about writing an open letter to Syedna with your actual details. You can put all your excellent questions in that letter. How about having some real action instead of bhashan??

[Safiuddin]

So again one cannot bring reforms just by asking the same monotonous questions for years and years.

BTW: How about writing an open letter to Syedna with your actual details. You can put all your excellent questions in that letter. How about having some real action instead of bhashan??

Besides a letter, what would you, Aarif, suggest?
How would you propose one bring about reforms? I'd be most interested to hear your comments, O Educated One.

[Arif]

Besides a letter, what would you, Aarif, suggest?
How would you propose one bring about reforms? I'd be most interested to hear your comments, O Educated One.

Oh you are asking how to bring about reforms. The way you find spelling and grammar mistakes in my posts make me believe that you are some lady Secretary working for a boss who must be making a lot of mistakes in his correspondence. This reform business is a bit too much for your nimble Secretarial brain.

So let Tahir answer the question. Please don't waste your time on all this. Just goahead and find some more typos since, that's the only thing you can do

[Safiuddin]

Aarif,

Don't evade the question. You say this is not how reforms should be done, so let's hear your suggestions. You remind me of my employees that constantly complain and bemoan their fate, yet when asked, refuse to provide any positive suggestions or solutions for change.

It seems that you have no respect for the participants on this forum, you spend time proselytizing and screaming, yet when faced with a genuine challenge, you respond with more anger and petty childishness.

My observation of your spelling and grammar useage came only after you claimed to be educated with 2 master's degrees. Your style, rhetoric, and maturity level certainly don't lend credibility to your claim.

I've been treating and taking care of people with characterological personalities for many, many years, and your behavior fits the mold. So I find it difficult to believe you.

Before you lash out again and display your education and personality to the world, try and act like an adult instead of a pre-pubescent child.

[Safiuddin]

nimble Secretarial brain

Nimble, huh Aarif? Thank you - that's a compliment!