Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

[kseeker]

Biradar
However, the Ismailis are not unique in this and Sufis (both Sunni and Shi'a) also interpret the Qu'ran and shariaa in similar symbolic manner

Br Biradar
If we accept Ismailis and Sufi's version of Interpretation of Quran and still consider them Muslims then why the Muslim world calls Ahmedis (Qadiyanis) as Kaafir because they have their own interpretation of Quran and Mehdi
I did ask a very active member of Ahemdiyya community if they believe Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) to be the last messenger and he unequivocally said YES, he said where they differ with main stream Muslims is the Zahoor of Mehdi, they consider their leader to be Mehdi ( I am not sure if I agree to that, since according to my limited knowledge Zahoor of Mehdi will the end of world as we know and Mehdi is not supposed to die while their first leader Ghulam Qadyani died )

The Ahmedi issue is different. A very widely talked about and accepted narrative about calling Qadiyanis as kaafir is that it is not religious but a political one. The Wahabis of Arabia witnessed how majority Sunnis in Syria are being controlled by a very small Duruze group who are well educated. They were afraid of something similar taking place in Pakistan (you see the Qadiyanis are a highly literate group of people who held very important posts in the country during the first 20 years of it's existance) therefore they funded propaganda that they are kafirs and persecuting them is a service to 'real' muslims.

This has been widely spoken about by many columnists and journalists in Pakistan.

[RedBox]

as I have said in many of my previous post, Taher is more evil than mufaddal actualy, because he is pretending to be pious and smart but actually he is just there to continue hafta wasooli which his uncle and father did for more than 100 years from the innocent bohras, playing with ayat of Quran is old trick these people are using, recent example is below.


recently he gave "sabaq" on "Najwa" and its important and supported his claim with an ayat of Quran that even Muhammed saw use to take such najwa. but I will prove it that those najwa was never took by Muhammed for his personal use but he used it for the poor people only.


read the following website

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Al-Najwa_Verse


this is how they manipulate Quran for their greed and power games

Taheri [*DELETED] will never reply to you brother. They are more venomous than mufaddalis. Be careful.

[ajamali]

as I have said in many of my previous post, Taher is more evil than mufaddal actualy, because he is pretending to be pious and smart but actually he is just there to continue hafta wasooli which his uncle and father did for more than 100 years from the innocent bohras, playing with ayat of Quran is old trick these people are using, recent example is below.


recently he gave "sabaq" on "Najwa" and its important and supported his claim with an ayat of Quran that even Muhammed saw use to take such najwa. but I will prove it that those najwa was never took by Muhammed for his personal use but he used it for the poor people only.


read the following website

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Al-Najwa_Verse


this is how they manipulate Quran for their greed and power games

Taheri [*DELETED] will never reply to you brother. They are more venomous than mufaddalis. Be careful.

OMG... Shabab, cry baby, Redbox .... all the same virus. Quit talking to yourself.....Get a life.....

[Social Awareness]

Taheri [*DELETED] will never reply to you brother. They are more venomous than mufaddalis. Be careful.

OMG... Shabab, cry baby, Redbox .... all the same virus. Quit talking to yourself.....Get a life.....

Moron is still crying about the IDs and not giving the reply to the question asked by shabab.

[RedBox]

Here by I want to show you what is difference between an educated genius and an educated moron.


Some days back I saw fatemi dawat website and I read some woman from his family got an award from UAE and they were clebrating like it was a noble price. But the truth is UAE is involve in human rights violation and a good person wont accept that award.


https://www.fatemidawat.com/news/events ... book-award





Here is another writer who declined the award.

[RedBox]

Chu** wants reward and recognition even if it is coming from modi or a hitler or Israel.

[objectiveobserver53]

^^ So the same person who glorifies the cutting of the genitals of 7 year old girls now wants the Dr Bazat Tahera to reject a well-deserved award as a form of protest for the violation of the human rights of some entitled princesses! Give me a break Redneck! What about the human rights of seven year old girls?

[RedBox]

^^ So the same person who glorifies the cutting of the genitals of 7 year old girls now wants the Dr Bazat Tahera to reject a well-deserved award as a form of protest for the violation of the human rights of some entitled princesses! Give me a break Redneck! What about the human rights of seven year old girls?

Glorifies cutting of genital?

Bhaang khaa ke aaya hai kyaa?

Tere [DELETED] ko bol ke prize lene kaa shauq hai to acche logo se le. Human right violators se nahi.

[objectiveobserver53]

Lagta hai paan kuuch zyaada Chabaa liya hai maulvi sahab ne....

[TalibBhai]

Lagta hai paan kuuch zyaada Chabaa liya hai maulvi sahab ne....

chal bhaag criminal lover

[RedBox]

Brain dead taher followers would have started randi rona about the same issue if some body from mufaddal saifuddin clan would have accepted such award.

Thats the hypocrite taheri morons first nature. Never accept the mistake and always blame others.

[RedBox]

When Small men begin to cast big shadows, it means that the sun is about to set.

~Lin Yutang

[Saif53]

Hadd e A'zam: Mufaddal bin 'Amr
http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2021/06 ... n-amr.html

Taher Fakhruddin has proven once again that he is hell-bent on distorting Fatemi history, and has absolutely no idea what he's lecturing about. Does he intend to tarnish the legacy of esteemed hudood of Dawat simply because they share the same name, Mufaddal?

[TalibBhai]

Muhammed Burhanuddin himself didn't steadfast on the will of his father to make Khujema his successor. so everything from SMB should be taken with a pinch of salt.

[TalibBhai]

lets talk about the real world scenarios.

what did muffy do in this pandemic apart from hiding in a different place and asking people to stay away from him.

in fact even in pandemic he kept collecting money for nikah and other stuff. just recently one of my know person who is abde payed 250k for his son nikah in khandala.

so lets keep spirituality not in talks when talking about muffy or taher.

[Biradar]

In his latest weekly lecture, STF discusses the issue of the faction of the Sulaymanis. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viiYHjWyRDA. As usual, at the end he connects it to the present conditions, in which he says that it is not surprising that the son and family of the da'i turned from the "dawaat al-haq". However, beside saying that "this can happen and has happened" he really does not give any reason why we should actually consider his father's (i.e SKQ) claim to be the correct one. After all, SKQ was also the son of the da'i and one could say that in fact SKQ was behaving like Sulayman and not Muffy. Both situations are symmetrical and the same accusation that STF makes against Muffy can be made against STF's father.

Now, as I have said before it is likely that SMB did nass on SKQ right at the start of his era. However, given the length of time he ruled it is also not unlikely (and also given that SMB was a megalomaniac who probably did not think precedence of not changing nass applied to him) that he changed his mind and appointed Muffy at the last moment instead. In the last two decades of his life, SMB had developed the feeling that he was god. I have heard him say several times that if he wanted he could show a miracle that he could raise the dead. We all witnessed the amazing wealth he hoarded as well as the power he accumulated for himself. So why is it not possible that he felt that past precedence be damned, he could appoint Muffy at the last moment?

Another serious issue is why not a single one of SMB's brothers or kids (and extended family) support SKQ? Besides his kids, SKQ has zero support from anyone of his own brothers or sisters, nephews, nieces and extended family. Worse vast majority of the administration also do not support him. This itself makes the analogy with Sulaymanis a weak one. Hence, a more credible argument is that SKQ was the Sulayman figure and not Muffy.

Of course, the reality is that all these various SXX are just after power and wealth. We have established beyond any doubt that SKQ enjoyed while he could and when SMB died to regain his power he launched a court case. At first he tried to have a stay so he could control all properties (which clearly show why he filed the case) but his stay was denied. Now that years have gone by SKQ's gambit has proven to be a failure. Not that the outcome will make any difference at all, but now it is just a farce that is dragging on for years, with no end in sight.

Anyway, I am interested to hear from FD bhakts why they think their guru-dev is not to be considered Sulayman of the era rather than Muffy.

[qutub_mamajiwala]

just curious biradar
in quran there is a word--Nasakh
in tafsir, it is said that it means a ruling or verse which was previously revealed can be or is abrogated with present verse or ruling.
can it be applied to nass?

[Biradar]

just curious biradar
in quran there is a word--Nasakh
in tafsir, it is said that it means a ruling or verse which was previously revealed can be or is abrogated with present verse or ruling.
can it be applied to nass?

Good question. The nature of religious scripture is such that it remains flexible and often open to interpretation. However, in this specific case I do not believe that the Qur'anic notion of abrogation applies to the nass situation. Verses of the Qur'an which later were apparently abrogated were still valid when they were first revealed. Second, abrogation may mean several things, including transient validity of one meaning but otherwise permanence of other meanings. I mean, the Qur'an is a permanent text! Nass can't be actuated until the person on whom the nass is done (mansoos) actually takes the position to which he was appointed. Death can prevent this, as has often happened, but there is no theological reason why the nass itself can be changed/abrogated.

The issue if nass can be changed is a subtle and complicated one. I do not believe this is possible, at least in principle. Otherwise the question of infallibility would be in trouble. However, when one studies history deeply, one will realize that often there is confusion on who the mansoos is and contradictory information may be given to various people (witnesses). A more important question is: if the mansoos himself is directly informed about the nass, can it then be changed? I do not believe so. There is no known case in which this has occurred. (Note that often other people were told so-and-so was the mansoos, either directly or via hints. In those cases the apparent heir-designate was not told, or was a participant in the subterfuge, often undertaken to protect the real mansoos).

[anajmi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viiYHjWyRDA

I saw this video. Have to say. He is a big hypocrite. He mentions about Bohras giving trouble during burial. This is a common occurrence amongst the Bohras. It happened during the time of his father and grand father. Didn't bother him at that time did it? And the beauty about his logic is so ugly and so apparent that only the biggest of fools will fall for it, but that is exactly what the Bohras are.

I am on truth because I was selected by my father and my father is on truth because he was selected by his father. But what if there is an issue, then it is the other guys problem. But he too says the exact same thing, correct, but I am on Haq because I have been appointed by Haq. Amazing logic.

[Biradar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viiYHjWyRDA

I saw this video. Have to say. He is a big hypocrite. He mentions about Bohras giving trouble during burial. This is a common occurrence amongst the Bohras. It happened during the time of his father and grand father. Didn't bother him at that time did it? And the beauty about his logic is so ugly and so apparent that only the biggest of fools will fall for it, but that is exactly what the Bohras are.

I guess because you were still in purdah you missed the previous discussion we had on the hypocrisy of the kids of SKQ. For example, STF's sister wrote a book of poems in which she laments how her children were taken from her and don't even look at her face when she has her court-appointed time with them. I mean, her dad and her uncle and grandpa were all complicit, either overtly or by their silence, when thousands of families were torn apart by their fanaticism. Yet, no books of poems were written, no tears were shed. My own family has several family members who were socially boycotted by these thugs and physical violence visited on them.

However, despite this, to the contrary, these FD dad and kids kept enjoying expensive vacations, private schools in far-flung places and generally living an enjoyable and fun life. For these hypocrites their pain and troubles are far more important than the pain suffered by ordinary bohras.

I have in general tended to support some of the SKQ/FD people in the sense that they are somewhat better than the Muffy thugs. I also personally like STF and think he is an overall well-meaning guy, and clearly smarter than his low-IQ moronic cousin. However, their hypocrisy and self-pity has turned me off from them completely. They cry and weep at their so-called misfortune (yet they are actually a pampered bunch of millionaires) but are unable to recognize that their family caused misery and misfortune to thousands. This to me automatically disqualifies them from any moral high-ground to preach to others. They must wear the rope of repentance and take a submissive and passive role. Perhaps then Allah will forgive them. The Qur'an makes clear that the fate of the hypocrites will not be a pleasant one. Let's hope they get enough sense before it is too late.

[RedBox]

Talking about these royals?

Lol just the normal amil of my place thinks this whole world was created for him and ordinary bohras are born to serve them and give then money and big house. He literally tore off old building and built new one recently from money by people. Lol


Now imagine what muffy and taher must be thinking about themself.

[anajmi]

I guess because you were still in purdah you missed the previous discussion we had on the hypocrisy of the kids of SKQ.

Not in purdah. Just not interested. And that was a blessing. Not sure why I am here wasting my time. As kaka akela says, nothing new to see here, its the same shit. Time to move on. Every fruit of this tree is rotten!!

[Biradar]

I guess because you were still in purdah you missed the previous discussion we had on the hypocrisy of the kids of SKQ.

Not in purdah. Just not interested. And that was a blessing. Not sure why I am here wasting my time. As kaka akela says, nothing new to see here, its the same shit. Time to move on. Every fruit of this tree is rotten!!

So, I do not often agree with you, but I think you bring a view-point that is different, and sometimes thoughtful and valuable. I too have despaired of this place and written laments about it. I believe it has declined greatly over the last 10 years or so, specially with certain folk who keep spamming it with multiple IDs and their gutter-like, nasty language. The discussions here were always somewhat colorful but the viral infection that is killing this place with it's verbal diarrhea is something that has happened only recently and seems even Admin is unable (or unwilling) to inoculate the board against it. It has cost the board many valuable members. To be honest, I often too think that this is a waste of time and it is time to move on. However, this is the only remaining dissenting place where a deep archive going back 25 years or more exists. All other platforms like Watsapp etc are ephemeral and do not encourage sustained discussion. (I dislike social media so much that I am not on it at all).

But perhaps you are right. Maybe it is time to admit defeat, both against the Kothari Mafia led by the various SXXs and the internal overflowing gutter some people are hell-bent on turning this place into.

Islam, in the final analysis, is a religion of individual salvation via good-deeds one must do oneself. It allows us to pursue the path to the Divine Beloved in any of the myriad ways that have emerged over the 14 centuries since the Prophet. The Bohra path, as I have said several times before, in its fundamentals is sound and very close to mainstream Sunni practice. Lately the leadership has degenerated due to it's intense love of money and power. However, that does not change the fact that still our salvation depends only on us, and not on these SXXs. We often continue the fight to save a community that we loved and in some instances still love. But perhaps the battle is too uneven and impossible and one should give up and focus inwards and move on.

[anajmi]

Not sure why you classify it as a defeat. I certainly do not feel that way. Once I quit, I was boycotted, but damn it feels good to be a gangsta. I consider myself victorious. I am no longer bound by stupid waez and unIslamic customs. My family and I have no issues. I do not worry about being buried in a bohra qabrastan and my daughter is engaged alhumdulillah to a family which has also being boycotted and are now a part of the Sunni jamaat. I am personally not aligned to any jamaat per se. I classify myself as the follower of Quran and the Sunnah of the prophet (ﷺ). I go to a masjid where people know me and when I die, I don't really care what happens to me. That is upto my family. If I have raised them right, they will do the right thing. I only care what I do while I am alive. Am I worshipping the Lord Almighty or am I too busy worshipping his creation?

So all in all, I am victorious. I consider the Bohras still bowing down to the Dai like the ones that were ruled over by firaun. Unfortunately for these idiots, no Musa is coming.

[anajmi]

Also, I am no longer picking fights with the leaders of the jamaat. I used too, but realized it was useless and it was only causing harm to my other family members. All I do now is whenever the opportunity presents itself, I share my thoughts with my family and friends like I do over here but without the kind of language I can use over here .

[Biradar]

Not sure why you classify it as a defeat. I certainly do not feel that way. Once I quit, I was boycotted, but damn it feels good to be a gangsta. I consider myself victorious.

So all in all, I am victorious. I consider the Bohras still bowing down to the Dai like the ones that were ruled over by firaun. Unfortunately for these idiots, no Musa is coming.

Yes, it is an individual victory to have escaped the mad-house. I feel the same. Though I see many of my friends and family stuck in this mire of untruth and, as you say, in the clutches of Firon. Perhaps no Musa is coming and the fact that you say this, is itself a sign of the defeat. Perhaps that is to be expected, as these things are too big for any of us individuals to change and we can't really wake those who have volunteered to choose slumber. We can only impact ourselves and to a lesser extent, our families. I for one often feel, that despite the (apparent) difference we have, there is much to learn from each other, though we may despair at times. But, to be honest: I am only goading you so you participate, as I miss the old debates and fights. Though often heated they were enlightening and useful. I wish that many more sensible people (Humsafar, Porus, etc) would participate again. Though, of course, as you did they may have gotten fed-up of this place and moved on with their lives.

[anajmi]

Perhaps no Musa is coming and the fact that you say this, is itself a sign of the defeat.

Well, the last prophet was prophet Mohammad (ﷺ). The Dais and hidden Imams are a scam. So it is not a sign of defeat. It is a sign of accepting the truth. The final message has been delivered. Allah says in it, if you disagree with the people in authority go back to Allah and his messenger. You and I have to do it one at a time. But we start first with ourselves. Heck, even the prophet (ﷺ) wasn't able to save everyone in his community, so don't expect to save everyone in yours.

Hussain (ra) died fighting the Yazid of his time. Fortunately for us, the Yazid of our times doesn't have that kind of power. I fought and I survived and so have many others الحَمْدُ لِلّٰهِ.

[Sheikh Ali sadiq]

hadith denier denies the hadith of coming of Imam AS

[Humsafar]

Biradar, I am sufficiently goaded to write I come here regularly and read almost everything that has sense and substance, which we all know is hard to come by here these days. I do not want to lament about the decline of this forum. It is what the contributors make of it. It is like politics, all the good and honest people keep away from politics so it ends up being a playground for crooks and criminals. The more good people shun this forum the more the viruses will prevail. It is as simple as that. I too am guilty of keeping away, mostly because I have nothing new to say, and time is a real constraint for me lately. But I do chip in now and then when I'm provoked and/or find someone misrepresenting the reform movement.

Anajmi, It is good to see you here after a long hiatus, and also to note that you have lost none of your fire . There are many Bohras like you have moved out and found freedom. Good for all of you. And in fact, that's what the mafia clergy wants: get rid of all the pesky people who question them and leave them alone to do their thing.

The reformists too have found freedom -- our jamats are free and democratic and accountable (to the extent it is possible) living up to the ideas we are fighting for. But the reform project is premised on collective emancipation. A salvation of an individual is not our aim. The fundamental principle of the movement is to bring reform to the entire corrupt, rotten system. Maybe it is a pipe dream. But one we believe is worth striving for.

In the last forty plus years we are nowhere near the goal of affecting the great masses of Bohras as we had set out to do. On the contrary, our numbers have dwindled. The failure, as I cannot tire of repeating, is of Bohras who do not want to better their lot. They have come to find comfort and convenience in their slavery. So, yes the reform movement has been languishing on the sidelines, and perhaps made more irrelevant with the latest schism. Everyone's attention is divided by the Muffy and Qutbi rivalry.

What does the future hold for the movement. Don't know, your guess is as good as mine. But we would continue to be the thorn on side of the mafia clergy (Muffy or Qutbi). We live in hope, and we know what history has taught us: no tyranny is forever.

Dil Na-Umeed to nahin, Nakaam hi to hai
Lambi hai gham ki shaam magar shaam hi to hai
– Faiz

[anajmi]

The failure, as I cannot tire of repeating, is of Bohras who do not want to better their lot. They have come to find comfort and convenience in their slavery.

An excellent analysis. And there is an example of this in the Quran. The Bani Israel whom Musa (as) freed from the clutches of the firaun. After they were saved from the clutches of the firaun, they longed to go back. At every turn, they gave trouble to Musa (as). They were not happy with the manna and salva, they longed for the food they got as slaves. When Musa (as) went to talk to his maker, they started worshipping the cow. Perhaps the Bohras have learned from the bani Israel. They hear about the trials and tribulations about the Bani Israel and have decided to stay in the slavery of the firaun!!

For those who have broken free, there will be trials and tribulations. Either you pass or you fail.

If your aim was to save everyone in your community, then I am afraid, you will be disappointed. As I said, even the prophet (ﷺ) wasn't able to do it. Your aim should be to give the truth, whether it is accepted or not, is upto the Lord Almighty. That is what HE told the prophet (ﷺ). His job was to deliver the message. The changing of hearts is in the hands of Allah (swt).

I never had the goal of saving the community. I was only interested in getting to know Islam and once I did I realized what Bohraism was and it wasn't Islam. Even today, I am not trying to convert anyone. I was able to help my immediate family and a few of my friends. I have been very successful in a few cases and haven't made a dent in the case of others. But unlike the prophet (ﷺ) who became very sad when his message was rejected, because he realized he couldn't save every one, And Allah had to comfort him (ﷺ), I don't care much. That is the difference between him and us. He (ﷺ) had the burden of the entire mankind on his shoulders. We don't.