Princes (-Zahdas, Dins) Again

[New]

Well, I thought the princes and princely states were abolished. Vallabbhai Patel and Morarji Bhai where are you? http://www.charityperformance.com/chari ... p?id=17882
Dawat E Hadiyah Trust (UK)
Flat 21 Gate Hill Court
166 Notting Hill Gate
London W11 3QT
Tel: 02072296404
CC number: 294807
Dawat-E-Hadiyah Trust
Objectives
The objects of the Trust are to carry out charitable purposes for the relief of poverty and the advancement of education or religion or otherwise for the benefit of mankind anywhere in the world. The Nominees confirm that they have paid due regard to the guidance contained in the Charity Commission's general guidance on public benefit when reviewing the Trust's aims and objectives for the year.
Professional Advisers
Auditors Citroen Wells
Legal Advisers Bircham Dyson Bell
Trustees
Prince Qaidjoher Ezzuddin, Prince Idris Badruddin, Prince Quasai Vajihuddin, Prince Ammar Jamaluddin

[ghulam muhammed]

If the religious leader himself choses the title of "Sultan" for himself then why wouldn't his offspring not follow him, its a different matter that never did the Prophet (s.a.w.) or Mola Ali (a.s.) address his children as shahzadas or shehzadis. Have you ever heard them saying Shehzada Hasan, Shehzada Hussain or Shehzadi Fatema or Mola Ali (a.s.) ever calling himself Sultan of Madina or Kufa although he was much greater then these present day two bit leaders !!

[bohra_manus]

Well, I thought the princes and princely states were abolished. Vallabbhai Patel and Morarji Bhai where are you? http://www.charityperformance.com/chari ... p?id=17882
Dawat E Hadiyah Trust (UK)
Flat 21 Gate Hill Court
166 Notting Hill Gate
London W11 3QT
Tel: 02072296404
CC number: 294807
Dawat-E-Hadiyah Trust
Objectives
The objects of the Trust are to carry out charitable purposes for the relief of poverty and the advancement of education or religion or otherwise for the benefit of mankind anywhere in the world. The Nominees confirm that they have paid due regard to the guidance contained in the Charity Commission's general guidance on public benefit when reviewing the Trust's aims and objectives for the year.
Professional Advisers
Auditors Citroen Wells
Legal Advisers Bircham Dyson Bell
Trustees
Prince Qaidjoher Ezzuddin, Prince Idris Badruddin, Prince Quasai Vajihuddin, Prince Ammar Jamaluddin

Is there any documented proof that Dawat-E-Hdaiyah is meeting the guide line?

[AgnosticIndian]

I've always wondered aren't there not other Bohris qualified enough to be trustees? Why all positions are held by "Shezadas" and other family members of STS? Are the Zadas the only people competent to run the offices? Best is these people marry amongst themselves even if first cousins (scientifically not good) so that all the power, money remains within them.

[asad]

People who are going gaga over SKQ claim and his down to earth approach please mind his children are now called as Shehzadas they are not behind kids of SMS who are now addressed as Shehzadas

[yuzarsif]

[New]

I agree with the AgnosticIndian about intermarraiges amongst -zadis and -zadas to preserve the family wealth and Secrets. Eventually the tribe will disappear, but not in our lifetime, due to bad genes. At one point, SMS was married to SKQ's daughter who was divorced. What would have happened if they had children? One would have called them Lanatzadas.

[fulan ibn fulan]

Intermarriages were promoted by not only Allah in the Quran but also by Nabis, Namely RasulAllah who said that a marriage with the son/daughter of you kaka is the most elustrious marriage possible. So essentially by saying you don't agree with it is against Rashullah's Sunnah.
Secondly, The risk of a birth defect between unrelated parents is 2-3% risk and with 1st cousins it is only 4-5%. So can you really say that there is a massive difference in risk between inter marriages and non related marriages?

[fulan ibn fulan]

In reply to the person questioning the actions and dealings of Dawat-E-Hadiyah, it most certainly does do those things mentioned. If they did not meet these criteria then they would have been removed from the list of registered charities and not to mention many law suits against them for 'stealing' their money

[trvoice]

This might help you a bit understanding inbreeding. Did anyone notice the current 4-5th gen of SMB who have been continuously inbred ? If you cannot see it then there is not much to say.

http://www.afa.net/Blogs/BlogPost.aspx?id=2147498193

[fulan ibn fulan]

I didn't deny there were risks, all i merely said is that it is slightly more than in unrelated marriages. As for the article/blog you want us to read, the author, Nicolai senners was and is a priven islamaphobe who has wanted Islam/Muslims out of Denmark. Are you going to really trust the thesis of a man who has been against that particular religion and culture right from the start.
Learning about Islam and its rituals (marriage) from him would be as useful as learning about Judaism from Hitler.

[New]

Please, take note fulan ibn fulan

...the first and biggest victims of Islam are Muslims.

[/color], according to the Danish author. The genetic diseases risk rise to 7% from 3%. But that is only in the first generation. Queen Victoria's family had hemophilia... The author is not attacking Islam but just rationalizing the statical data. Bring your statistics if you do not believe. That is how population studies are done. I am grateful to trvoice for the article citation. I had not seen it. Glad that we have learned people here in the forum. fif please consult an independent genetic book. In Saudi Arabia, the gene pool was very small and they had no knowledge of inbreeding. Marriages were done for the sake many many political things. In bred race wake up if you can. Some one is doing you a favor...

[New]

I originated this thread. I am glad that it has taken a new twist on genetics. Some people think that the holy book and Islam is the ultimate answer to everything. That is your faith which is not based on facts. Even the SKQ's website claims that he is for higher education. How about a course in genetics? Most of his children have cousins as wives. Dr. Tahera, an Islamic Scholar, has married a bhaisaab (how related?). What good is the Islamic knowledge? It needs to keep up with the times you live in. By the way inbreeding increases the chances of genetic diseases, does not mean they will happen. However, it may raise its ugly head some generations later. I personally know such families who have genetic diseases attributed to inbreeding. All animal, plant, microbes are alive today because they have minimized inbreeding with gene dispersion leading to genetic diversity. They may not have wealth but they are a lot smarter...

[New]

http://www.charityperformance.com/chari ... p?id=17882
Can someone from the UK get a report and expose the "Princes". To Catch a Thief. The assets can be frozen or they can be arrested if they happen to be in the UK.

[New]

Do the Princes publicize the reports. Why? Where is the money. I can see where it is and can see where it is not. It seems fif bhai you feel sorry for Ziyafatzadas. Let some one get the charity report, then we can talk.

[Nietzsche]

Fluan ibn fulan: Rasulallah knew no science, and apparently neither did god. Successive interbreeding between cousins will lead to a proliferation of genetic disorders through the generations of the family. A prime example of this is the European monarchy. If you study them, you will see myriad relationships between cousins. A famous example was the son of the last Russian tsar, who had hemophilia, a genetically transferred disease. Just because the Quran says something, it doesn't make it right. If all humans had followed the Quran's instructions regarding marriage, I don't think that there would be many of us left.

[Nietzsche]

Thanks for the link above. Despite the biased source, the statistics provided exhibit that muslims have only been hurt by stringently adhering to the Quran's commands in the area of marriage and ignoring logic and science. The Dai is fallible, and so is God. It is nice to know that the Bohra clergy might breed itself to irrelevancy, it might be the only hope in the long term for the Bohras.

[sallu_baba]

I find that this thread has gone to two extremes; one stating cousin marriages are Sunnah and the other saying they're harmful. To my knowledge, both these opinions are wrong. There is a permission in the sharia to marry cousins, but this doesnt make it a rule or "sunnah". Moreover, (and sorry to make the hardcore Bohras here squirm) but there has been a recorded narration from Umar Bin Al Khattab regarding discouraging cousins from marrying across a few generations.

The reason for this permission in the sharia is open to interpretation, but to call it good practice is maligning it.

[fulan ibn fulan]

I agree hat you don't have to do it and I also know that successive inbreeding is harmful, I admitted that above. I also agree with you that Sharia and Sunnah both are open to interpretation, but who should we listen to when it comes to that? I know what I will say but who do you think are the reliable sources as to how to interpret those laws?

As for the narration,I will choose to ignore that based on the fact of that person he was, whether he was right or wrong is different, I personally don't think it can be thought of as a valid quote, especially amongst Shia's regardless of which type of Shia you are.

[sallu_baba]

Bro, in such a case, my opinion has always been to use statistics and science in such matters. It's a part of Islamic law, so how you choose to use (or abuse) it is up to you

[fulan ibn fulan]

Okay but what if the resulting poll concludes something absolutely ridiculous. Here are 4 examples of recently passed fatwas which were discussed by between 20-50 scholars:
1. Women should not touch a banana or a cucumber because it resembles a penis.
2. Muslims shouldn't watch mickey mouse or any disney cartoons because they are the warriors of satan.
3. Stop buying Danish products (Because of the cartoon they drew)
4. They told Muslims to stop watching films with Shah Rukh Khan in them as well saying he was anti Islamic
I think we can all agree that all of these are absolutely ridiculous fatwas. when you ask people to vote, these are the kind of silly rules and interpretations you get. I therefore think that voting while can have a positive effect, people always regret there decision after wards and also to be honest I question what basis any of these fatwas were passed. They have no relavance to Islam and are the reason why people laugh at muslims worldwide.
As for how you use science I don't particularly understand what you mean. Could you please explain that?

[sallu_baba]

I honestly have no idea where the fatwas you speak of were introduced into this conversation. Of course those fatwas are ridiculous, which is why its best to view the sharia and rationalize it yourself. My opinion is that God will not "punish" you if you were genuinely trying your best to live using your reasoning.

I speak of sciene in the sense of peer reviewed journal papers. They are usually backed by years of research and present a pretty factual evidence of matters ie in this regard, that would be one of Consanguinity.

[ghulam muhammed]

Intermarriages were promoted by not only Allah in the Quran but also by Nabis, Namely RasulAllah who said that a marriage with the son/daughter of you kaka is the most elustrious marriage possible.

I don't deny the above but is that the REASON for the 'Royals' to intermarry ?? Just think brother !! It has more to do with the wealth being held and controlled by their own siblings, they don't want the wealth to spill out of Saifee Mahal !!

[Bohra spring]

FbF, Is it any banana or cucumber or just holding the small ones are banned by the fatwa

U mean let's be precise which size resembles the priests perception

I think big ones would be ok in most cases for gujjus not from Afric

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