I have a solution for bohra community...

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Rationalist
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 6:20 am

Re: I have a solution for bohra community...

#61

Unread post by Rationalist » Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:25 pm

Quranist wrote:if you are talking about Al qaida and other terrorist group, then i dont need to tell u that they are against the basic teachings of QURAAN which is peace loving message from creator.

so how can they achieve peace and success if they are operating against ALLAH?

Qur’an 3.28 Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers; and whoever does this, he shall have nothing of (the guardianship of) Allah, but you should guard yourselves against them, guarding carefully; and Allah makes you cautious of (retribution from) Himself; and to Allah is the eventual coming.

Qur’an 3:56 “As for those disbelieving infidels, I will punish them with a terrible agony in this world and the next. They have no one to help or save them.”

Qur’an 5:51 “Muslims, do not make friends with any but your own people.”

Qur’an 8:12 “Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers”; “smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them”

They are following these verses. At Least Bohras have taweel, they don't go blow themselves up.

wise_guy
Posts: 700
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:52 pm

Re: I have a solution for bohra community...

#62

Unread post by wise_guy » Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:14 pm

Rationalist wrote:
Quranist wrote:if you are talking about Al qaida and other terrorist group, then i dont need to tell u that they are against the basic teachings of QURAAN which is peace loving message from creator.

so how can they achieve peace and success if they are operating against ALLAH?

Qur’an 3.28 Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers; and whoever does this, he shall have nothing of (the guardianship of) Allah, but you should guard yourselves against them, guarding carefully; and Allah makes you cautious of (retribution from) Himself; and to Allah is the eventual coming.

Qur’an 3:56 “As for those disbelieving infidels, I will punish them with a terrible agony in this world and the next. They have no one to help or save them.”

Qur’an 5:51 “Muslims, do not make friends with any but your own people.”

Qur’an 8:12 “Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers”; “smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them”

They are following these verses. At Least Bohras have taweel, they don't go blow themselves up.

Are the above verses from the Quran written by Salman Rushdie ? So now, people have started questioning the Quran itself by misquoting ayats out of context. (don't know even if the above ayats are true or not)

Rationalist
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 6:20 am

Re: I have a solution for bohra community...

#63

Unread post by Rationalist » Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:58 pm

wise_guy wrote:
Rationalist wrote:
Qur’an 3.28 Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers; and whoever does this, he shall have nothing of (the guardianship of) Allah, but you should guard yourselves against them, guarding carefully; and Allah makes you cautious of (retribution from) Himself; and to Allah is the eventual coming.

Qur’an 3:56 “As for those disbelieving infidels, I will punish them with a terrible agony in this world and the next. They have no one to help or save them.”

Qur’an 5:51 “Muslims, do not make friends with any but your own people.”

Qur’an 8:12 “Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers”; “smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them”

They are following these verses. At Least Bohras have taweel, they don't go blow themselves up.

Are the above verses from the Quran written by Salman Rushdie ? So now, people have started questioning the Quran itself by misquoting ayats out of context. (don't know even if the above ayats are true or not)
Don't you have a copy of Quran at home. Open it and read the following verses. Their literal meaning do promote HATE. You might have a peaceful interpretation. But the hateful literal meaning is what is taught at the thousands of Saudi operated and funded madrasas and masjids.

Quranist
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:29 pm

Re: I have a solution for bohra community...

#64

Unread post by Quranist » Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:01 am

Rationalist wrote: Don't you have a copy of Quran at home. Open it and read the following verses. Their literal meaning do promote HATE. You might have a peaceful interpretation. But the hateful literal meaning is what is taught at the thousands of Saudi operated and funded madrasas and masjids.
I have no idea what your is your intention by distorting meaning of QURAAN.....

and no matter what saudi madressa does , it is important what QURAAN says and not what they taught to people.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: I have a solution for bohra community...

#65

Unread post by Muslim First » Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:36 pm

Here is Yusuf Ali translation and Pooya Ali commentary.
[Yusufali 5:51] O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
[Pooya/Ali Commentary 5:51]
The Jews and the Christians had much in common, and therefore readily formed an alliance against Islam. so anyone who makes them his friends must have some points of identity with them. A believer, in order to keep himself safe from the influence of falsehood, must avoid the company of disbelievers. The doctrines of tawalla (staying attached with the Ahl ul Bayt) and tabarra (avoiding the enemies of Allah, the Holy Prophet and his Ahl ul Bayt) are the articles of the faith of them followers of Muhammad and ali Muhammad.

The Holy Prophet said:

Do not adopt the style and mannerism of my enemies, lest you may be considered as one of them. He who appears like a certain type shall be identified as of that type.
M.asad
5:51 (Asad) O YOU who have attained to faith! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for your allies: they are but allies of one another [72] and whoever of you allies himself with them becomes, verily, one of them; behold, God does not guide such evildoers. [73] -

Note 72
According to most of the commentators (e.g., Tabari), this means that each of these two communities extends genuine friendship only to its own adherents-i.e., the Jews to the Jews, and ,the Christians to the Christians-and cannot, therefore, be expected to be really friendly towards the followers of the Qur'an. See also 8:73, and the corresponding note.(Quran Ref: 5:51 )

Note 73 (Quran Ref: 5:51 )
Lit., "the evildoing folk": i.e., those who deliberately sin in this respect. As regards the meaning of the "alliance" referred to here, see 3:28, and more particularly 4:139 and the corresponding note, which explains the reference to a believer's loss of his moral identity if he imitates the way of life of, or-in Qur'anic terminology-"allies himself" with, non-Muslims. However, as has been made abundantly clear in 60:7-9 (and implied in verse 57 of this surah), this prohibition of a "moral alliance" with non-Muslims does not constitute an injunction against normal, friendly relations with such of them as are well-disposed towards Muslims. It should be borne in mind that the term wali has several shades of meaning: "ally", "friend", "helper", "protector", etc. The choice of the particular term - and sometimes a -combination of two termms-is always dependent on the context.(Quran Ref: 5:52)
Br rationalist
Are you just reading literal translation or along with comments of various translators?
Have you read similar passages from Bible and Torah?

I have posted 5:51 with comments and it is better understood to mean a believer should not have dominating friends from non believers in Islam. A fraindship in equal term is acceptable.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: I have a solution for bohra community...

#66

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:02 am

wise_guy wrote:Just having Quran is no use. Quran is no doubt, the ultimate and final word from Allah Subanahu. There should be someone who guides you and who shows you the path. The Bohras have been guided by the Dais over the centuries and majority of Bohras are living peacefully, educated, businessmen and professionals, absolutely no anti-social behavior among the majority.
Parsis are MORE peaceful, MORE educated, have businessmen and professionals with absolutely NO anti-social behaviour among the majority inspite of having NO ONE to guide them.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: I have a solution for bohra community...

#67

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:07 am

surti wrote:Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin (TUS) has said:

"Syedna Taher Saifuddin performed such khidmat of Quran-e-Natiq (Imam al-Zaman) that the Qur'an now provides a shelter to his resting place."[Zikra Majlis, Surat 1415H, 1994]
The Quran written in gold with diamonds, rubies and precious stones provided over his shelter is actually provided by abdes who have donated enough of moolah to cover a hundred more mausoleums !! BTW, even Shahjehan has engraved some Quranic verses in the Taj Mahal wherein lies his beloved wife, Mumtaz.

surti
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:49 am

Re: I have a solution for bohra community...

#68

Unread post by surti » Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:36 pm

ghulam muhammed wrote:
surti wrote:Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin (TUS) has said:

"Syedna Taher Saifuddin performed such khidmat of Quran-e-Natiq (Imam al-Zaman) that the Qur'an now provides a shelter to his resting place."[Zikra Majlis, Surat 1415H, 1994]
The Quran written in gold with diamonds, rubies and precious stones provided over his shelter is actually provided by abdes who have donated enough of moolah to cover a hundred more mausoleums !! BTW, even Shahjehan has engraved some Quranic verses in the Taj Mahal wherein lies his beloved wife, Mumtaz.
thats y aurangzeb imprisoned him?

Bori85
Posts: 133
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:48 pm

Re: I have a solution for bohra community...

#69

Unread post by Bori85 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:13 pm

surti wrote:
ghulam muhammed wrote: The Quran written in gold with diamonds, rubies and precious stones provided over his shelter is actually provided by abdes who have donated enough of moolah to cover a hundred more mausoleums !! BTW, even Shahjehan has engraved some Quranic verses in the Taj Mahal wherein lies his beloved wife, Mumtaz.
thats y aurangzeb imprisoned him?
Aurangzeb imprisoned his father , while the Shahzada's of Mohd.Buhannuddin, have not imprisoned him but instead made him a puppet now, parading him everywhere to collect all the moolah's in his name, and making the DB's sing 'ghanu jivo ...." so that they can collect more moolah's from DB's