Maatam for mind control and subjugation..

[haqniwaat]

Please don't make jokes about maatam. It is a very religious act for Shia. Thank you.

[SBM]

Please don't make jokes about maatam. It is a very religious act for Shia. Thank you.

Kothari Goons have made joke of Maatam.-- SHIA do not do maatam for some one's KHUSHI., they do not do Maatam after Salah, they do not do Maatam during Eid-Wedding and Eid e Ghadeer.

[haqniwaat]

Yes, agreed. Maatam is not khushi, it is gham. But then we already know what mistakes are being made in the times we live in, don't we? Don't blame the religion, blame those who proclaim to be religious.

[ghulam muhammed]

A message being circulated on Bohra watsup by the Dubai jamat :

Date: Friday, 17th October 2014 (23rd Zil Hajjatil Haram)

Zakereen Musabaqat will be held at 12.00 noon in Al Masjid Al Saifee followed by Zohar/Asar namaz at 1.00 pm

Aa Musabaqat nu barnamaj Murattab karwa ma niyyat ye chhe ke Ashara Mubaraka ni Ohbat thai ane mumenin aa Al Masjid al Saifee ma haazir thai ne Imam Hussain no Matam kare jena sabab Masjid na taameer ma je umoor chhe to sehel thai.

All Mumineen are requested to attend in large numbers.

Wassalam

Anjuman Najmi.

[JC]

Matam has just become a ritual like dares, majlis, urs and all that crap ............... whenever they want to create hysteria they will drum up for matam ............

[ghulam muhammed]

The abdes accuse us of mocking the Matam whereas it is they themselves who are making a mockery of Matam and the esteem shahadat of Imam Hussain a.s. The only lessons they have ever learnt from the tragic battle of Karbala is various types of purjosh matam, rova jevu muh banavo and pounce on 2 kharas 2 mithas immediately after Matam and the Dai goes a step further by taking Ziyafats immediately after Ashura and selling his sermons to the highest bidding jamat.

[Critical_Thinker]

Please don't make jokes about maatam. It is a very religious act for Shia. Thank you.

I agree, but unfortunately it seems most people here are not shia so they will have no respect.

[Critical_Thinker]

Matam has just become a ritual like dares, majlis, urs and all that crap ............... whenever they want to create hysteria they will drum up for matam ............

Why do people like you come here when you dont believe in the progressive or traditional bohra faith?
Nobody is forcing you to do matam, so why does it bother you so much if we do matam?

[SBM]

Please don't make jokes about maatam. It is a very religious act for Shia. Thank you.

I agree, but unfortunately it seems most people here are not shia so they will have no respect.

Does the Kothari Goons have any respect for Maatam. Did you see people shouting Ya Hussain at the train station. Do Amtes and Abdes have any respect for Maatam?

[JC]

Matam has just become a ritual like dares, majlis, urs and all that crap ............... whenever they want to create hysteria they will drum up for matam ............

Why do people like you come here when you dont believe in the progressive or traditional bohra faith?
Nobody is forcing you to do matam, so why does it bother you so much if we do matam?

The current 'Purjosh Matam' and matam at each and every occasion and matam for Khushi of Maula has NEVER been part of traditional bohra faith. It was just symbolic; it is now that these Kothari Luchas have made mockery of matam and are SELLING this idea like anything and using it to their advantage. Wake up bro...!!! before it is too late.

[Critical_Thinker]

I agree, but unfortunately it seems most people here are not shia so they will have no respect.

Does the Kothari Goons have any respect for Maatam. Did you see people shouting Ya Hussain at the train station. Do Amtes and Abdes have any respect for Maatam?

All bohras respect matam as do most shias worldwide.
If you dont believe in matam, why are you here on a shia website?

[Critical_Thinker]

Why do people like you come here when you dont believe in the progressive or traditional bohra faith?
Nobody is forcing you to do matam, so why does it bother you so much if we do matam?

The current 'Purjosh Matam' and matam at each and every occasion and matam for Khushi of Maula has NEVER been part of traditional bohra faith. It was just symbolic; it is now that these Kothari Luchas have made mockery of matam and are SELLING this idea like anything and using it to their advantage. Wake up bro...!!! before it is too late.

I am not your bro. ISIS take advantage of the quran to commit murder. Does that mean the quran should be ridiculed?
Bohras do matam in remembrance of Imam Hussain to honour his martyrdom.
People like you who are against matam, are the real ones who make a mockery of it.

[zinger]

You say we mock Mataam? Have you seen any of the posts here that mock the way Maatam has done??!!

Does anyone remember the video of Maatam being done in a Reformist mosque????

That should tell you a thing or two about who mocks Maatam

[qutub_mamajiwala]

bro zinger and like ones
it is not the matam per se they are against.
and they are not even mocking matam.
they are against the way it has been manipulated by kothar and the way it is being done today
at the drop of hat or for any occasion without knowing anything.--like matam at station when SMS arrived.
do u agree to do matam at railway station for the the khushi and honouring and celeberating the arrival of SMS?
Even if ur happy that SMS graced surat and want to honour him for that---surely for that u will not do matam at raiway station for that----this whole thing taken together surely looks like mockery of matam

[humanbeing]

mockery of matam

Maatam at Railway station
Maatam at Construction site
Maatam at Nikaah majlis
Maatam at Dai’s salgirah
Maatam at Iftetaah
Maatam at Funeral
Matam at Airport runway
Maatam at Roads
Maatam at pause during Dai’s speech
Maatam for khushi of Dai
Maatam with Silence
Maatam with Chants
Maatam with slow pace
Maatam with fast pace
Maatam with Rova-jevu-moo
Maatam with Marsiya rhythm
Maatam in circles
Maatam before embarking on a journey
Maatam done on kids on chatti & akeeka
Maatam done between namaaz
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Amusing to know, how grief (maatam) can be controlled, instructed, orchestrated in variety of fashions. Kothar has successfully altered the definition of maatam for bohras.

Matam =A physical expression of flattery to please bohra godmen. A ritual that is to be practiced at various occasions in an abde’s life to express their gratitude towards bohra godmen.

[SBM]

Zinger and (HYPO) Critical thinker
Tell us what is the meaning of MAATAM to abde followers
For a normal person, a MAATAM is expression of grief and a normal intelligent person will not express grief for the KHUSI of someone. An free person will not express grief for the happy occasion of someone getting married. ONLY BRAID DEAD DO THOSE KIND OF STUPID ACTS,

[think_for_yourself]

Zinger and (HYPO) Critical thinker
Tell us what is the meaning of MAATAM to abde followers
For a normal person, a MAATAM is expression of grief and a normal intelligent person will not express grief for the KHUSI of someone. An free person will not express grief for the happy occasion of someone getting married. ONLY BRAID DEAD DO THOSE KIND OF STUPID ACTS,

SBM Mumineen do matam for Hussain AS - no matter what the occasion. If matam is done in a nikah majlis, it is still matam e Hussain. No one is doing matam for the young couple! The idea is that the barakat of ghum and Buka of Hussain will keep all other ghums out of a mumin's life. It is a selfish idea just like waajebaat is. Waajebaat aapso to barakat thaase. I think a higher motivation is to do ghum e Hussain for it's own sake, in memory of and gratitude for the sacrifice that saved Islam. Similarly, give zakat because it is Allah's haq not for your own selfish benefit. There are no great ideas bigger than yourself in the MS Dawat.
The frequency with which matam e Hussain is called for, has diminished the Buka out of it. People have started doing it mechanically and without emotion. I have seen ladies continuing to chat while raising their palms to their chest. We have also seen that people are doing it EVERYWHERE - including train stations and while simultaneously pushing and shoving other Mumineen. One wonders why MS does not intervene and stop the behurmati. There might be something to the idea that it is being used for mind control.

[Critical_Thinker]

You say we mock Mataam? Have you seen any of the posts here that mock the way Maatam has done??!!

Does anyone remember the video of Maatam being done in a Reformist mosque????

That should tell you a thing or two about who mocks Maatam

What video is this? What was it showing?

[Critical_Thinker]

bro zinger and like ones
it is not the matam per se they are against.
and they are not even mocking matam.
they are against the way it has been manipulated by kothar and the way it is being done today
at the drop of hat or for any occasion without knowing anything.--like matam at station when SMS arrived.
do u agree to do matam at railway station for the the khushi and honouring and celeberating the arrival of SMS?
Even if ur happy that SMS graced surat and want to honour him for that---surely for that u will not do matam at raiway station for that----this whole thing taken together surely looks like mockery of matam

Without doubt matam is being hijacked by the clergy, but who are we to complain and why does it bother us?
The traditional bohras believe it is a good thing to perform matam as much as possible, let them do so.
Iranian shias take matam to the extreme and cut themselves badly in order to bleed for Imam Hussain, let them do so.
In the end we are not going to change anything so mocking matam doesnt help anyone and plays in to the hands of the wahhabis.
We should be attacking the kothar on their many other failings, where we would gain far more support.

[Critical_Thinker]

Zinger and (HYPO) Critical thinker
Tell us what is the meaning of MAATAM to abde followers
For a normal person, a MAATAM is expression of grief and a normal intelligent person will not express grief for the KHUSI of someone. An free person will not express grief for the happy occasion of someone getting married. ONLY BRAID DEAD DO THOSE KIND OF STUPID ACTS,

Only a brain-dead person would spell the word brain wrong!

[JC]

Critical Thinker,

The question you asked me has been sufficiently answered by various members. Now you need to really think critically.

Matam was just symbolic, so 'show' the grief of Hussain, it was never meant to be 'purjosh' .......... do you think Hussain would have wanted the style of matam we see today (whosoever does that)?? Now Kothar 'orders' do matam on your knees?? We are not against symbolic matam but the matam which is done today by shias and abdes (and by the way this is NO matam).

Please do not compare matam to Quran; Quran CAN NOT be compared to anything, that's my belief. You can compare matam to may be any 'good thing' or 'good tradition' or custom or may be ritual, I do not mind (not that you care!). And why I am saying this is that 'anything' and 'everything' can be changed irrespective of its use for any reason. Matam is such a thing which is not obligatory and hence is subject to criticism and change. Quran is NOT.

ISIS is not the subject of discussion here; we all agree that they are WRONG to core, whatever they do, believe, everything is WRONG. For us they are a non-entity and hence sooner they are eliminated, better.

And lastly sorry if I called your brother.

[Critical_Thinker]

Critical Thinker,

The question you asked me has been sufficiently answered by various members. Now you need to really think critically.

Matam was just symbolic, so 'show' the grief of Hussain, it was never meant to be 'purjosh' .......... do you think Hussain would have wanted the style of matam we see today (whosoever does that)?? Now Kothar 'orders' do matam on your knees?? We are not against symbolic matam but the matam which is done today by shias and abdes (and by the way this is NO matam).

Please do not compare matam to Quran; Quran CAN NOT be compared to anything, that's my belief. You can compare matam to may be any 'good thing' or 'good tradition' or custom or may be ritual, I do not mind (not that you care!). And why I am saying this is that 'anything' and 'everything' can be changed irrespective of its use for any reason. Matam is such a thing which is not obligatory and hence is subject to criticism and change. Quran is NOT.

ISIS is not the subject of discussion here; we all agree that they are WRONG to core, whatever they do, believe, everything is WRONG. For us they are a non-entity and hence sooner they are eliminated, better.

And lastly sorry if I called your brother.

You are free to believe whatever you wish about matam, and bohras can believe whatever they wish too.
I have read your other posts and its obvious you are not a shia jc.
Why does it bother you what other communities do?
Why do you wahhabis hate everyone else on earth?

[JC]

I am a Muslim; that's it. I do not want to be in any sect. I cannot say if Wahabis hate others or not as I am not a Wahabi. I however know bohras hate ALL others and I know this because I was born as a bohra and still in the chains ............ yes, you may call me coward or hypocrite but I have my reasons and limitations to continue to be called a bohra.

Being still part of the community (which has been turned into a CULT now) I have all the reasons to object on things which are incorrect. This has been a community; my forefathers have been part of this community and have served it, this is not the jageer of anybodys Bap or Dada .........!!!

[Al Zulfiqar]

this is a typical abde response. when saner and more reasonable people point out the nonsense and tomfoolery which has been going on among bohras since last 5-6 decades - the rhythmic cunningly organised maatam, the over-hyped emotional responses of some abdes and amtes who get all super excited, with their hormones out of control, and start yelling in grief and banging themselves silly, beat their chests in the 2-handed approach, get onto their knees and hammer themselves (the latest innovation supported by the establishment), form groups of self-imagined kerbala warriors and move in well-synchronised movements - a' la the shia - using chains, knives etc; and in a curious twist which seems to actually ridicule and mock the sacrifices of hussain and his accompanying shohodas, they express sorrow to mark the arrival of their god on earth mufatlal wherever his fancy takes him.

as someone here has listed the various occasions when maatam is performed, one glance at it and it will be obvious to even the most stupidest fool that the whole niyyat of mourning is blasted to smithereens when you perform it at the arrival of mufatlal at the rlwy station/airport/dock/reception ground etc. now if any right minded person objects to this tauheen of hussain's shahadat, then it is conveniently termed as 'mocking maatam'.

perhaps it would serve these outraged objectors well, if they can be reminded that hussain died on the searingly hot and dusty plains of kerbala to uphold the principles of integrity without any compromise to power, wealth or influence of his enemy. he did not die a most excruciating death so that his kufr-filled followers somewhere in the distant future could celebrate his matryrdom 'for the khushi of their egotistic leader' ...!!!!

i am surprised and amazed that bohras have become so indoctrinated and brain-washed that they cannot see the cruel contradiction between doing dignified maatam when it is appropriate and doing senseless and mechanical maatam when the occasion is in fact a travesty to the memory of the great shohodas. i mean, have these people gone insane, have their value systems become so perverted and mutated that they see no incongruousness in their junglee behaviour???

i wish someone had told hussain before he allowed shimr to put his un-sharp knife to his neck, that his sacrifice, as far as the bohras are concerned would be totally in vain, that in the distant future their dastardly dai would emotionally blackmail, manipulate and subjugate the shia's of ali into mocking his shahadat, into making moharram an occasion for celebration -wahabi style, that he would mount lavish feasts, arrange massive gatherings of his followers as a show of strength and money power, that he would use hussain's sacrifice to earn hundreds of crores, that bohra boys and girls would use the solemn 10 days to find their life partners, that the bohra dai would soon after the 10th day when hussain was maqtal, indulge in luxurious ziyafats and then, tired with the rigors of deceiving the assembled throngs of sheep, retire into the jungles of africa to shoot a few lions, elephants, and other big game from endangered species! that the fanatic abdes/amtes would fall upon lavish kharas mithaas and exotic jamans after shedding a few crocodile tears over the hapless hussain, using the occasion of his death to go on shopping and sight-seeing trips.

seeing all this, hussain would definitely prefer a second shahadat, an even more cruel one, instead of resurrection if it was offered to him by the creator.

what the last 3 dai's have done is to murder hussain twice - by recounting only superficially his murder after he was betrayed by the cowardly shias of kufa and the second murder in their masjids every moharram. perhaps the lily-livered kufans were better, they did not make untold millions from hussain's death, they did not insult his sacrifice, they did not make a parodic ritual of maatam, they did not march to scottish bagpipes and drums beating out western melodies whilst dressed in outlandish costumes, they did not go on fun-filled trips to exotic foreign lands to observe hussain's death!

o hussain.. surely it was your destiny to suffer, not just in your earthly life, but also in your hereafter at the hands of the latter day bohras who commit daily sacrilege in your name.

[Critical_Thinker]

I am a Muslim; that's it. I do not want to be in any sect. I cannot say if Wahabis hate others or not as I am not a Wahabi. I however know bohras hate ALL others and I know this because I was born as a bohra and still in the chains ............ yes, you may call me coward or hypocrite but I have my reasons and limitations to continue to be called a bohra.

Being still part of the community (which has been turned into a CULT now) I have all the reasons to object on things which are incorrect. This has been a community; my forefathers have been part of this community and have served it, this is not the jageer of anybodys Bap or Dada .........!!!

The posts you write clearly show you are against shia theology, that is your prerogative, but has no place being expressed here.
It puts you in opposition to traditional AND progressive bohras.
Traditional and progressive bohras do not accept certain personalities, but we do not hate ALL others. You are exaggerating and fabricating.

If you really were born bohra (which I doubt) then what is keeping you in chains?
Instead of venting your cowardly and hypocritical frustrations here, why not develop some backbone and leave the community which you hate so much?

[maethist]

I am a Muslim; that's it. I do not want to be in any sect. I cannot say if Wahabis hate others or not as I am not a Wahabi. I however know bohras hate ALL others and I know this because I was born as a bohra and still in the chains ............ yes, you may call me coward or hypocrite but I have my reasons and limitations to continue to be called a bohra.

Being still part of the community (which has been turned into a CULT now) I have all the reasons to object on things which are incorrect. This has been a community; my forefathers have been part of this community and have served it, this is not the jageer of anybodys Bap or Dada .........!!!

JC,

So you are a self-hating Bohra! I have included you as one of anajmi's boot-lickers seeing that you love his unsolicited sermons on this forum.

anajmi is a 'true' Muslim and has direct line to Allah. He does not need any interpretation of the Quran like everyone else does. He gets it directly from Allah. Tell me. Do you also have direct line to Allah or are you a Muslim like everyone else who follows someone who interprets Islam for them? Let me guess; anajmi, of course.

Please, please do not tell me you read the Quran in translation. Do you? It is not another 'bolta' Quran you listen to, surely. Or is it?

[Al Zulfiqar]

this is a typical abde response. when saner and more reasonable people point out the nonsense and tomfoolery which has been going on among bohras since last 5-6 decades - the rhythmic cunningly organised maatam, the over-hyped emotional responses of some abdes and amtes who get all super excited, with their hormones out of control, and start yelling in grief and banging themselves silly, beat their chests in the 2-handed approach, get onto their knees and hammer themselves (the latest innovation supported by the establishment), form groups of self-imagined kerbala warriors and move in well-synchronised movements - a' la the shia - using chains, knives etc; and in a curious twist which seems to actually ridicule and mock the sacrifices of hussain and his accompanying shohodas, they express sorrow to mark the arrival of their god on earth mufatlal wherever his fancy takes him.

as someone here has listed the various occasions when maatam is performed, one glance at it and it will be obvious to even the most stupidest fool that the whole niyyat of mourning is blasted to smithereens when you perform it at the arrival of mufatlal at the rlwy station/airport/dock/reception ground etc. now if any right minded person objects to this tauheen of hussain's shahadat, then it is conveniently termed as 'mocking maatam'.

perhaps it would serve these outraged objectors well, if they can be reminded that hussain died on the searingly hot and dusty plains of kerbala to uphold the principles of integrity without any compromise to power, wealth or influence of his enemy. he did not die a most excruciating death so that his kufr-filled followers somewhere in the distant future could celebrate his matryrdom 'for the khushi of their egotistic leader' ...!!!!

i am surprised and amazed that bohras have become so indoctrinated and brain-washed that they cannot see the cruel contradiction between doing dignified maatam when it is appropriate and doing senseless and mechanical maatam when the occasion is in fact a travesty to the memory of the great shohodas. i mean, have these people gone insane, have their value systems become so perverted and mutated that they see no incongruousness in their junglee behaviour???

i wish someone had told hussain before he allowed shimr to put his un-sharp knife to his neck, that his sacrifice, as far as the bohras are concerned would be totally in vain, that in the distant future their dastardly dai would emotionally blackmail, manipulate and subjugate the shia's of ali into mocking his shahadat, into making moharram an occasion for celebration -wahabi style, that he would mount lavish feasts, arrange massive gatherings of his followers as a show of strength and money power, that he would use hussain's sacrifice to earn hundreds of crores, that bohra boys and girls would use the solemn 10 days to find their life partners, that the bohra dai would soon after the 10th day when hussain was maqtal, indulge in luxurious ziyafats and then, tired with the rigors of deceiving the assembled throngs of sheep, retire into the jungles of africa to shoot a few lions, elephants, and other big game from endangered species! that the fanatic abdes/amtes would fall upon lavish kharas mithaas and exotic jamans after shedding a few crocodile tears over the hapless hussain, using the occasion of his death to go on shopping and sight-seeing trips.

seeing all this, hussain would definitely prefer a second shahadat, an even more cruel one, instead of resurrection if it was offered to him by the creator.

what the last 3 dai's have done is to murder hussain twice - by recounting only superficially his murder after he was betrayed by the cowardly shias of kufa and the second murder in their masjids every moharram. perhaps the lily-livered kufans were better, they did not make untold millions from hussain's death, they did not insult his sacrifice, they did not make a parodic ritual of maatam, they did not march to scottish bagpipes and drums beating out western melodies whilst dressed in outlandish costumes, they did not go on fun-filled trips to exotic foreign lands to observe hussain's death!

o hussain.. surely it was your destiny to suffer, not just in your earthly life, but also in your hereafter at the hands of the latter day bohras who commit daily sacrilege in your name.

[JC]

This Community is not anybody's Bap Dada Ke Jageer ...!!! We will NOT leave this; this is our community and we have developed it. Those who have turned it into Cult should leave; those who have usurped and hijacked this community. The current 'royal' family are a bunch of outsiders to this community, occupiers and hence they should LEAVE..!!

You please go somewhere else with your Bolta Quran and Haqeeqa Kaaba and do purjosh matam. After that lick your masters, pay them and eat your food before you depart.

[maethist]

This Community is not anybody's Bap Dada Ke Jageer ...!!! We will NOT leave this; this is our community and we have developed it. Those who have turned it into Cult should leave; those who have usurped and hijacked this community. The current 'royal' family are a bunch of outsiders to this community, occupiers and hence they should LEAVE..!!

You please go somewhere else with your Bolta Quran and Haqeeqa Kaaba and do purjosh matam. After that lick your masters, pay them and eat your food before you depart.

My! My! My!

Not only a boot-licker but as deluded as his mentor Prophet anajmi (SAW).

In your delusion you do not realize that you are the only one left behind in the community. The rest have moved on to create a new identity in a new cult, as you so boldly point out.

[Biradar]

This Community is not anybody's Bap Dada Ke Jageer ...!!! We will NOT leave this; this is our community and we have developed it. Those who have turned it into Cult should leave; those who have usurped and hijacked this community. The current 'royal' family are a bunch of outsiders to this community, occupiers and hence they should LEAVE..!!

You please go somewhere else with your Bolta Quran and Haqeeqa Kaaba and do purjosh matam. After that lick your masters, pay them and eat your food before you depart.

My! My! My!

Not only a boot-licker but as deluded as his mentor Prophet anajmi (SAW).

In your delusion you do not realize that you are the only one left behind in the community. The rest have moved on to create a new identity in a new cult, as you so boldly point out.

It is pointless arguing with JC. He is a very ignorant jaahil. He knows less than nothing about Islam or about the Shia, or Ismaili or Bohra faith. I mean, just ignore him. He is not smarter than a fifth grader. He once made fun of Dua al Nasrul-va-Mahaba! See below:

http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... 689#p22689

This fool is not worth ones time.