Mr. S. Insaf

[Gulf]

Salamalayk. Mr. S. Insaf I appriciate your familiarity with daawat. God Bless You.
please post the family tree of Sayyedna Taher saifuddin saheb. would be fine if it starts from His Grand father till His Grand sons.

Thanks

[profrog]

are you kidding this guy has no familiarity with dawat whatso ever its like asking shaitan to describe jannat,just because he knows the NAMES of the books of dawat he proclaims himself as a aalim constantly lying to cover his and his teacher engines false prophthood,

[S. Insaf]

Brother Gulf,
I have already on this board posted the family tree of late Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb. So far I am unabe to trace any systematic history of Dais' families before and after.

[S. Insaf]

Brother Profrog,
"You say that I proclaim myself as an aalim constantly"
I have never claimed that. This board is for sharing knowledge and exchanging ideas which I am doing. I quote Dawat's books so that any one can verify my statements for their authenticity.
Just because they go against your belief and expectations they are bound to hurt you though that is not my intention.

[profrog]

which of the books you so like to quote from have you actually read because you would not be a dushman of the dawat if you were well read in those books as you claim

[aftabm]

Profrog,

Which books you have read,or forget about reading, even heard of, so that you claim yourself to be the most devoted. Or is it a thorough brainwashing by kothar suffice to be a so-called-devotee of dawat.

[Al Zulfiqar]

Originally posted by profrog:
are you kidding this guy has no familiarity with dawat whatso ever its like asking shaitan to describe jannat,just because he knows the NAMES of the books of dawat he proclaims himself as a aalim constantly lying to cover his and his teacher engines false prophthood,

and what about your familiarity with our dawat and its leaders whom you worship as prophets, no, actually as allah's representative on earth?

read the following link to know more about yr dai and his father, then decide who is the real shaitaan before spewing garbage through yr swine mouth...

http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com/cgi-bin/U ... 1;t=001619

btw, i have asked u and yr fellow haiwaans directly on this forum to reply on this, but like cowards you have kept silent and run with your tails between your legs everytime!!! go check with yr local amil or write to the syedna to find out why he doesnt celebrate his mother's urus or makes absolutely no mention about her..

[S. Insaf]

Brother Profrog,
One learned Amil who used to stay in Kurla donated a number of books to our library before his death. He said that Kothar will take away these rear books of our Dawat and destroy them as they have done in number of other cases. Kothar does not want the community know the truth.
These books are in Arabic and in Bohra Gujarati language.
I have read and study most of these books and where ever I found some useful information I have made a data base of those information which I often refer whenever some subject regarding out Dai or Dawat is discussed.
It looks like that present regime new about these rare books in our possession. That why there Kothar goons attacked and ransacked our Santacruz office – Mumbai in Feb. 2000 after attacking Dr. Asgar Ali Engineer at the airport. Fortunately these books were elsewhere and saved.
Our Santacruz office has various volumes of translations of Quran. Kothar's goons threw down these volumes along with other books.
When police came, one police had inspector picked up one copy of Quran and had asked "Is Sayedna's Quran different than Asgar Ali's Quran?" This was reported both in Times of India and Indian Express dailies.

[Shahu]

Brother Insaf,

To safeguard such rare documents It is better to give it in custody of Institute of Ismaili Studies. Like Dr. Zahid Ali, and Dr. Abbas Hamdani has given their collections. In future it can be translated and published so that others can also read and know Ismaili philosphies.they have already published some books. So far I found only Dr. Zahid Ali who has critically written two books in Urdu. One "Hamare Ismaili Mazhab Ki Haqiqat" and another book " Tarikh-e-Fatimin".

http://www.iis.ac.uk/view_article.asp?ContentID=105138

Shahu

[S. Insaf]

Prof. A. A. Asaf Faizee was a scholar and rewound historian of Ismaili and Fatimi Dawa. When in 1956 I came to Bombay at the age of 12, I was lucky enough to attend his weekly meetings at his Breach Candy residence.
Somewhere in 60’s one day when Faizee Saheb was busy delivering his lecture he saw Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb’s son Hatim Hamiuddin entering the meeting hall with a Shia vaizeen Maulana Abbas Rizvi. He was so shocked that he stopped for some time. After the meeting Hatim Bhaisaheb shook hands with Faizee Saheb and others and went away. As usual thereafter groups were formed and each group prepared its questions and began the question-answer session. Addressing Maulana Abbas Rizvi Prof. Faizee openly said in the meeting, “Maulana Saheb please be careful in selecting your companions. Some of them may be pretenders and seek your company to destroy you. Please don’t bring any one from Sayedna’s house to this meeting.”

Before his death Faizee Saheb donated his valuable books to a famous library in Bombay with a clause that “No member of the Dawoodi Bohra Community be ever allowed to read, refer, take away or temper these books.”

With my very good Urdu and English language background Faizee Saheb initially did not know that I am also a Dawoodi Bohra. One day I disclosed my identity and told him that I am from the group which is agitating against destructive policies of the house of the Sayedna. Later on even Asgar Ali Engineer started coming to these meetings and Faizee Saheb became great admirer our struggle for reform in the Bohra Community.

[profrog]

we all know that today that shaitan is called engineer, and no matter how much you defend him it will not change this fact he is the true inheritor of iblis and pity on those who follow or protect him

[profrog]

and pity on the progs that now they have to rely on other religions like ismailis and wahabbis tp prove themselves right or wrong

[like_minded]

Profrog,

This is what you learn from your tutor (syedna), Hatred and more Hatred.

[like_minded]

One more thing.... don't judge the progressives by your own low standards.

And this "shaitan and Iblis" stuff reserve it for mosque, thats the place for you to use such words, they are not welcome here.

[truebohra]

Originally posted by S. Insaf:
Prof. A. A. Asaf Faizee was a scholar and rewound historian of Ismaili and Fatimi Dawa. When in 1956 I came to Bombay at the age of 12, I was lucky enough to attend his weekly meetings at his Breach Candy residence.
Somewhere in 60’s one day when Faizee Saheb was busy delivering his lecture he saw Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb’s son Hatim Hamiuddin entering the meeting hall with a Shia vaizeen Maulana Abbas Rizvi. He was so shocked that he stopped for some time. After the meeting Hatim Bhaisaheb shook hands with Faizee Saheb and others and went away. As usual thereafter groups were formed and each group prepared its questions and began the question-answer session. Addressing Maulana Abbas Rizvi Prof. Faizee openly said in the meeting, “Maulana Saheb please be careful in selecting your companions. Some of them may be pretenders and seek your company to destroy you. Please don’t bring any one from Sayedna’s house to this meeting.”

Before his death Faizee Saheb donated his valuable books to a famous library in Bombay with a clause that “No member of the Dawoodi Bohra Community be ever allowed to read, refer, take away or temper these books.”

With my very good Urdu and English language background Faizee Saheb initially did not know that I am also a Dawoodi Bohra. One day I disclosed my identity and told him that I am from the group which is agitating against destructive policies of the house of the Sayedna. Later on even Asgar Ali Engineer started coming to these meetings and Faizee Saheb became great admirer our struggle for reform in the Bohra Community.

S.Insaf. with due respect to u. How do we know that ur r not lying?

[truebohra]

Originally posted by like_minded:
Profrog,

This is what you learn from your tutor (syedna), Hatred and more Hatred.

LM ur running the hate campaign. Progs are Hate mongors. U people abuse Sayyedna (T.U.S). At least respect his position. Its the offical stand of Progs that Sayyedna (T.U.S) is the naib of immam-u-zaman (A.S) (correct me if i m wrong). Ur abusing the naib of Imam (A.S).

[Maqbool]

By profrog
“we all know that today that shaitan is called engineer, and no matter how much you defend him it will not change this fact he is the true inheritor of iblis and pity on those who follow or protect him”

I also feel to use the same words you have used, when ppl like you exploit us in the name of religion and sayedna. We all know that you all are paid goons of sayedna and keeping humanity on one side, you kills all the human rights.

My teaching and my true bohraism prevents me to use the words which you are using very frequently.

Please frog come out from the well and see the world.

[truebohra]

Originally posted by like_minded:
One more thing.... don't judge the progressives by your own low standards.

And this "shaitan and Iblis" stuff reserve it for mosque, thats the place for you to use such words, they are not welcome here.

truly only a shaitan or iblis coulld speak like this. and yes this place is antithesis to mosque.

[like_minded]

Respect comes naturally, Unfortunately Syedna has lost total respect for obvious reasons.

If progressives are against this system which includes the head (dai)it is because there is just loot and more loot, religion is sold like a pimp selling girls, what respect can one have for syedna? even his position?

If you call progressives hate mongors, what are you all? Dont you sit in the mosque and shout laanats?? Is the mosque for shouting laanats?? Your head (syedna) should be ashamed of himself for encouraging this.

[S. Insaf]

S. Insaf. How do we know that you are not lying?

Unfortunately Prof. A. A. Asaf Faizee is not in our mist. Maulana Ziauddin Bukhar has also been killed. No one knows where is Hatim Hamiuddin now.
But if you want to verify from the library where his books are deposited with the clause please contact me on my e-mail sinsaf@yahoo.com.
I hope you know the risk of naming the library openly.

[aftabm]

Originally posted by truebohra:
LM ur running the hate campaign. Progs are Hate mongors. U people abuse Sayyedna (T.U.S). At least respect his position. Its the offical stand of Progs that Sayyedna (T.U.S) is the naib of immam-u-zaman (A.S) (correct me if i m wrong). Ur abusing the naib of Imam (A.S).[/QB]

TrueBohra....

We dont throw any one out of fold, we dont force any out of wedlock, we dont stop any one from attending anyone's funeral rites, we dont extract money from any poor soul, we dont stop any one from meeting any one...

If any one (that includes you)suffers because of system, mentally, physically or by any means, we ll sure help him in all way we can.

[profrog]

to call a spade a spade is not spreading hatred or abusive,today engineer is shaitan and there is no doubt about it so why do you call it abusive

[profrog]

as for his henchman insaap who has a habit of lying he uses dead people to prove his lies this is also a habit of shaitan

[SBM]

Is not Syedna always using DEAD People or The Imam in hiding to prove his points or as his references
IS HE ALSO LYING IN HIS WAIZ TOO

[S. Insaf]

Brother profrog,
You say: “as for his henchman insaap who has a habit of lying he uses dead people to prove his lies this is also a habit of shaitan”

You have a lot of hatred for me and for Dr. Asghar Ali Engineer. You have therefore used very harsh word for me. Well that is your culture. In my childhood in our madresas whenever a innocent child used to do some mischief the Mulla Saheb there used to shout at him with words like “Shimar in aulad” “Haiz na ducha” “Shitan” etc. So I am, like other Bohras is used to this type of abusive language and culture.
I later learnt that this is known as ‘Impotent fury or anger’ coming out of utter frustration.
From your statement should we conclude that Hatim Hamuddin Bhai Saheb (one of the persons mentioned by me) is also dead and buried?
Though I am sure if he is alive and confronted Hatim Hamuddin Bhai Saheb would not confess the incident.

But wait he had gone from the meeting and what had happened was between Prof. Asaf Faizee and Maulana Bukhari who are no more now.
So you are right in blaming me of using ‘dead people’ to prove my point.

But brother, I have stated a true incident and I find no reason to defend myself. Though for people like you I am trying to contact Faizee Saheb’s only daughter and get from her a written statement confirming the incident. She is not in Bombay and has gone to Tehran, I am told. But wherever she is I will try and contact her.

Since you are employed to some how defend your masters let me tell that the names of late Ibrahim Zainuddin, late Yusuf Najmuddin, late Saleh Bhaisaheb Safiyuddin and late Turab Mala etc. are still used by Kothar in the Charity Commissioner’s records and courts legal documents with their false signatures, though they have died and buried deep down long back.

[SBM]

Dear Br. Insaf
It pains to read the derogatory statement from the members of Animal Kingdom but I do not see any reason that you nor Dr. Engineer have any reason to defend yourselves. DOGS DO BARK AND ELEPHANT WALKS AWAY. As you are very well aware that these members of Animal Kigdom (Pro Pig, Pro Frog, Al-Bird) do not have anything to say constructively so please let them bark because this is the only place they can express their frustration and remove their anger as they cannot do with their Aamils
so think it this way that we are treating some schizophrenic patients on our message board by letting them get rid of their steam