simple question to insaf

[haqqun nafs]

as you are most active participant on this forum and most foul mouth against DAWATE HADIYA my simple question to you is do u even belive muhammed burhanuddin is DAI -e- Imam uz zamaan?

coz if you dont belive him DAI then you have no rights to call your self a reformist.reformist can be only those who belive in DAI.

[Safiuddin]

Admin please delete this previous post by haqqun nafs

[haqqun nafs]

Admin please delete this previous post by haqqun nafs

sorry if i step on your tail.btw admin is already deleting my comments from other threads seems i am becomming a great threat on this whole F@#$% reformist movement lol.

[guy_sam2005]

Admin please delete this previous post by haqqun nafs

sorry if i step on your tail.btw admin is already deleting my comments from other threads seems i am becomming a great threat on this whole F@#$% reformist movement lol.

hi hq,
i really like your posts..and its a sad part that adbin deletes our posts only when foul mouthed and not when its one of their own.id like to read all ur posts intact so please keep it free from foul words..we all know wat they are so bother mouthing and spoiling our tongues..moreover its not our culture.

[haqqun nafs]

no reply from insaap yet did he got hide in some black hole? or shiv sena activists hijacked him hahahaha omg

[S. Insaf]

do u even belive muhammed burhanuddin is DAI -e- Imam uz zamaan?

As I understand from this that you want to ask me “Do you believe that Sayedna Mohammad Burhanuddin Saheb is a Dai of Imam-uz-Zaman?”

I say that like all other reformist Bohras I also believe in the Fatemi Dawat and official position of the Dai.

Late Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb has defined “Dai” on page 3-4 of his celebrated book “Zua Nurul Haqqun Mubin” (1335 edition) quoting Qur’an that a Dai is one who invites people to the right path of Allah by modestly preaching the virtues and philosophy of Islam.”Dais from first Dai Sayedna Zoeb bin Musa till 46th Dai Sayedna Mohammad Badruddin strictly followed the teachings of Qur’an and converted hundreds of people from other faith to Islam.

But Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb’s grandfather, 47th Dai Sayedna Abdul Qadir Najmuddin Saheb was caught in a controversy regarding the "Nass”. And in order to retain his position he had to adopt certain methods which were against the basic duties of a Dai. (I have explained this in details in some other thread). The policies of 47th Dai seriously damaged the character of Dawat-e-Hadiya and the community. The subsequent 48th, 49th and 50th Dais tried their best to reverse back but as they were indebted hence they were not very effective.

The followers of Fatemi Dawat got frustrated and divided in different sects first during Najmuddin Saheb’s time and then in Taher Saifuddin Saheb’s time as he once again adopted his grandfather’s policies and enhanced them.

As a Dai Sayedna Saheb’s duty is to invite people towards the faith but Sayedna Saheb adopted a devisive policies to ask the believers to leave the fold if they find it otherwise.

Earlier Dais worked on Qura’nic teaching of “invites people to the right path of Allah by modestly preaching the virtues and philosophy of Islam.” But Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb started ruling the faithfuls by imposing Raza, Misaq, Taxes and Barbaric Baraat on them.

I say I believe in the position of Dai but I am against any one who assumes this office and misuses it for his vested interests. Though I have been asked number of times to leave this faith but as Makhdoom Moinuddin Say:
“Kiya mein yeh Jannat ko Jahannum ke hawale kar doon?”

[porus]

I had composed the following before Insafbhai posted his apposite reply.

'Belief' in the Dai is not a requirement for being a Muslim or a Moomin. What is a Muslim or a Moomin is clearly laid out in the Quran, and belief in the Dai is not it.

Ridiculous beliefs in the powers of the Dai are not consistent with his function as instituted at the foundation of Daawat by Hurra al-Malika. His sole function is to invite people to religion, not to engage in the creation of the cult of the Dai worship and all the paraphernalia that usually surrounds a cult.

I venture to say that the ridiculous beliefs about the Dai are held by no more tha 5 to 10 % of the Bohras, mainly in Indo-Pak and East Africa. When you next go to majlis, try scratching a person sitting next to you. You will most likely find a progressive/reformist underneath.

[anajmi]

That is the problem with the reform movement today. Top most on their agenda is not being a mumin or a muslim. Top most on their agenda is to still be a dawoodi bohra.

[porus]

Being a Dawoodi Bohra is not at variance with being a Muslim. Introduction of un-Islamic characteristics in the community is of recent origin and reformists are clearly concerned about it.

Those who ask reformists to leave the fold are like a sick relative asking to be left alone in his sickness. Your concern for him will naturally lead you to seek his relief from sickness. You would not listen to him nor abandon him.

Similarly, reformists have taken upon themselves the task of liberating the community from clear deviation from recognized principles of their faith.

[accountability]

Similarly, reformists have taken upon themselves the task of liberating the community from clear deviation from recognized principles of their faith.

Porus: Excellent example. This puts to rest the occassional rhetoric by them that if you dont like it just leave the fold. First, no one owns religion, second you said above.

[Humsafar]

Insaf bhai, pours
I like your posts.
(They should have something similar to what they have on Facebook where you can click a button to like a post!)

[Safiuddin]

seems i am becomming a great threat on this whole F@#$% reformist movement lol

Inoticed that Admin deleted the expletives that you hurled at Insaaf Bhai - and that is fine. Regarding your claim of becoming a threat. . .well . . .you flatter yourself. (behavior learned during vaaez by Burhanuddin, Inc. ?)

[haqqun nafs]

Mr insaap,

u have given me a long description about the defination of DAI which i dont required i know all this stuff,my basic question to you is do you belive present DAI syedna Muammed Burhanuddin(TUS) is DAI E IMAM UZ ZAMAAN and he holds raza of imaam e zamaanaa?

give me a brief reply.thats it.

[S. Insaf]

Prof. AAA Faizee says: Since Sayedna Zoeb's appointment as the first Dai-ul-Mutlaq, there has been no authentic record of any Dai-ul-Mutlaq having established contact with the hidden Imam.
Also Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb had said in Burhanpur Dargah case on oath in the court that "Existence of hidden Imam is imaginary and it's simply a part of belief and faith of the community."

Where is the question of Burhanuddin Saheb's appointment with the instruction and Raza of Imam-uz-Zaman?

And do you think that Imam will ever keep contact with an establishment stinking with so much corruption?

[haqqun nafs]

Prof. AAA Faizee says: Since Sayedna Zoeb's appointment as the first Dai-ul-Mutlaq, there has been no authentic record of any Dai-ul-Mutlaq having established contact with the hidden Imam.
Also Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb had said in Burhanpur Dargah case on oath in the court that "Existence of hidden Imam is imaginary and it's simply a part of belief and faith of the community."

Where is the question of Burhanuddin Saheb's appointment with the instruction and Raza of Imam-uz-Zaman?

And do you think that Imam will ever keep contact with an establishment stinking with so much corruption?

still u are running behnd your own tail.....do u belive him DAI E IMAM or not?

[bohri]

do u belive him DAI E IMAM or not?

HN - which books in Bohra-ism establish such beliefs as authentic and as requirement If the Sultan's father himself said this was an imaginary belief why are you so stuck on it? This TUS is an ordinary man like you and I. He happens to have been appointed to this seat and in the opinion of many is not doing justice to it, due to his lust for power and money and lack of any real deen-i knowledge.

[Zeal]

I say that like all other reformist Bohras I also believe in the Fatemi Dawat and official position of the Dai.

Haqqun nafs,

We know you are blinded and unable to think by the glitterring innovations brought by the dai, but are you blind by eyes also?

read the above quoted by Insaf sahab.

[porus]

The question of the appointment of the Dai by Imam is pure fiction.

Even the Hujjat of Imam Aamir, al-Malika Hurra, had no contact with Imam al-Tayyib. After Imam Aamir was murdered, Hurra lost contact with people who had taken the infant Imam al-Tayyib into safe custody, away from the intrigues of the Fatimi palace.

The Dai being the representative and deputy of Imam is a revisionist dogma that took root after the appointment of the first Dai al-Mutlaq, whose sole function is to invite people to faith.

[haqqun nafs]

ok so conclusion is you guys are not fighting for Imaan or for Islaam what u all want is share from the money which is collected world wide no matter for what reason and u are not happy that u guys are not living levish life as syedna is having ...ok point is close,if imaan is not your motive whole thing is fake.

[porus]

Forcing people to confess the ‘sins of unbelief’ and then punishing them is a hallmark of fanatics and cultists. They are easily recognizable by their inability to engage in any discussion, religious or otherwise. History is full of horrors inflicted by fanatics and cultists on human beings and global Enlightenment has no effect on them.

You would not dream of demanding that a Judge appointed to preside over cases first declare his personal religious beliefs. The stand of reformists, like Insaf bhai, is concerned with the issues that override any personal religious belief. It is about the issues of justice, fair play and accountability. These are enshrined in the Quran which overrides any dubious cultish belief.

The fact that the 51st Dai allowed himself to be in the dock being subjected to the due processes of the Indian Legal System attests to his compliance to the universal human rights issues which override his puny cultish system. He did not ask the Judge if he believed that he was Imam’s representative!

Beliefs of individual Bohras range from fanaticism, through devotion to faith to outright rejection of faith. None of this matters in connection their right to belong to the community

[Al Zulfiqar]

ok so conclusion is you guys are not fighting for Imaan or for Islaam what u all want is share from the money which is collected world wide no matter for what reason and u are not happy that u guys are not living levish life as syedna is having ...ok point is close,if imaan is not your motive whole thing is fake.

correct. since the syedna is claiming false authority from imam he is a fake. and his father who confessed in court under solemn oath that the hidden imam is just a figment of imagination and does not exist, was also a fake.

in your statement above you openly admitted that "money which is collected world wide no matter for what reason", which means monies are collected without any valid reason.

you also admit the haraam life style of syedna and his sons which they are enjoying after looting the community and refusing to give accounts by saying above " living levish life as syedna is having".

syedna by refusing to give accounts or be held accountable for anything is going against the practice and principles of molana ali. thus syedna is a fake and not a shia or muslim, according to your own statements and logic. Thanks!!!

people like you who believe in fakes are bigger fakes, in fact brainless fools, who deserve to be looted and kicked like slaves and their khaals removed for making jootis for their ringmasters.

[Aarif]

Excellent posts by Br. Insaf, Porus, AZ and others. I would like to thank Haqun Nafs for asking this question. Though I am sure he has NOT learned anything from it but I thouroughly enjoyed reading this entire thread.

Gud job guys.. Keep it up..

[Al Zulfiqar]

arif, a more appropriate moniker for this halfwit should be

HAGGUN NISF....

because he is a half of everything. Nisf as in nisf al layl. (the night split in half or midnight) he is a half male and half female, his brain is half, even his posterior and thus even his bowel movements are 50%....

[accountability]

ok so conclusion is you guys are not fighting for Imaan or for Islaam what u all want is share from the money which is collected world wide no matter for what reason and u are not happy that u guys are not living levish life as syedna is having ...ok point is close,if imaan is not your motive whole thing is fake.

In other words you are saying that dawat is nothing but money making machine. It is an instrument to seek debauchery and lavishness. Right? I said it because you said so. You are sure you said "Syedna is living levish life". You know what lavish means.
According to dictionary it means lav·ish (lvsh)
adj.
1. Characterized by or produced with extravagance and profusion: a lavish buffet. See Synonyms at profuse.
2. Immoderate in giving or bestowing; unstinting: The critics were lavish with their praise.

[Fatwa Banker]

Haqqun Nufs,

if you dont belive him DAI then you have no rights to call your self a reformist.reformist can be only those who belive in DAI.

As a cult member yourself, you will appreciate this. I did not believe in David Koresh or the Rajneesh either, but when I heard of the documented atrocities in those “communities” I wanted to support the reformers of those communities, but none existed and eventually the legal authorities got to them. I doubt if the legal authorities in India will ever get to you, so more power to the reformists.

As a side note, I would recommend that the Admin not delete any of your posts, as the intellectual disparity between your posts and the reformists may help the cause.

[guy_sam2005]

Being a Dawoodi Bohra is not at variance with being a Muslim. Introduction of un-Islamic characteristics in the community is of recent origin and reformists are clearly concerned about it.

Those who ask reformists to leave the fold are like a sick relative asking to be left alone in his sickness. Your concern for him will naturally lead you to seek his relief from sickness. You would not listen to him nor abandon him.

Similarly, reformists have taken upon themselves the task of liberating the community from clear deviation from recognized principles of their faith.

according to you who is the authorised guardian of the faith...you or moula(tus).
do you accept him as dai or not.or a dai as per your rule book...dont gimme a complicated web.just a simple yes or no

[anajmi]

guy moron,

You wouldn't understand a simple answer. 10 different people have given the simple answer in 20 different ways and you still haven't figured it out. Your Dai is the guardian only of your pockets.

[haqqun nafs]

guy moron,

You wouldn't understand a simple answer. 10 different people have given the simple answer in 20 different ways and you still haven't figured it out. Your Dai is the guardian only of your pockets.

where is the fuc!@# moderator of this Fuc!@# forum? why cant he send this fuc!@# anajmi a guide book to respect others

[haqqun nafs]

and still there is no satisfied reply to my original question seems all this morons are just confused in there own created shiit.which they called "so called reform movement" damit.

[bohri]

where is the fuc!@# moderator of this Fuc!@# forum? why cant he send this fuc!@# anajmi a guide book to respect others

Hey HN - where did you learn such lisaan-e-dawaat. at the sabaks or was that during the ashara waez - sounds like words straight out of the noorani lips of the (princes) shehzadas? You are a true Abde.