Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

[Hanif]

After revelation of this ayat, Maulana Ali was the first person to uphold this. He sold something of value to get money to do najwa to the Prophet(SAW) and he maintained this habit throughout his life.

First of all Mowla Ali AS was a poor man. Moreover, he could have given something of value to the Prophet instead of selling it because Najwa does not have a figure. Qur'an says, give something. Something does not mean money. I doubt that he offered him najwas throughout his life for consultation. I doubt he needed so many consultations in the first place.

Whether Bohoras consult the Dai in private or not they are forced to give najwas. First of all, Najwa, according to the Qur'an was for the Prophet SAW. And in the absence of the Prophet, it could be extended to the Imams. And if the Imam is in Satr, a Dai is not to collect Najwas because Imam is present in Satr. Even if the Dai is sitting in India, Najwas will be collected around the world every Ramadah, Mohorram or for any other excuses.


No pious Muslim man I know does that. No muslims are forced to give Najwas to their preachers who can be compared to the Dai. Preachers are missionaries and the word Dai means a missionary and nothing more.

[anajmi]

58:12 يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا إِذَا نَاجَيْتُمُ الرَّسُولَ فَقَدِّمُوا بَيْنَ يَدَيْ نَجْوَاكُمْ صَدَقَةً ذَلِكَ خَيْرٌ لَّكُمْ وَأَطْهَرُ فَإِن لَّمْ تَجِدُوا فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ

The abde Dai has cleverly misinterpreted this ayah for his abde idiots. When Salman Farsi set out to search for the prophet (saw), he was given three signs. One of those signs was that the prophet (saw) will accept gifts but will not accept Sadaqah. The charity mentioned in this ayah is not for the prophet (saw), but for those who are deserving of this charity. The Bohra Dai is the biggest beggar on earth if he thinks that he is the only one deserving of abde idiot charity.

[porus]

Whether Bohoras consult the Dai in private or not they are forced to give najwas. First of all, Najwa, according to the Qur'an was for the Prophet SAW. And in the absence of the Prophet, it could be extended to the Imams. And if the Imam is in Satr, a Dai is not to collect Najwas because Imam is present in Satr. Even if the Dai is sitting in India, Najwas will be collected around the world every Ramadah, Mohorram or for any other excuses.

'Najwa' (نجوى) actually means 'confidential talk' or 'private consultation'. In abde-speak, 'najwa', like 'salaam', means offering (araz) of an 'envelope flush with cash' to the Dai. It is expected of Bohras on all 'auspicious' days and nights. It definitely does not mean 'private consultation' for most of them.

58:12 يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا إِذَا نَاجَيْتُمُ الرَّسُولَ فَقَدِّمُوا بَيْنَ يَدَيْ نَجْوَاكُمْ صَدَقَةً ذَلِكَ خَيْرٌ لَّكُمْ وَأَطْهَرُ فَإِن لَّمْ تَجِدُوا فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ

Here is an Urdu translation of the ayat:

اے ایمان والو! جب تم رسول (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) سے کوئی راز کی بات تنہائی میں عرض کرنا چاہو تو اپنی رازدارانہ بات کہنے سے پہلے کچھ صدقہ و خیرات کر لیا کرو، یہ (عمل) تمہارے لئے بہتر اور پاکیزہ تر ہے، پھر اگر (خیرات کے لئے) کچھ نہ پاؤ تو بیشک اللہ بہت بخشنے والا بہت رحم فرمانے والا ہے

"Ae eemaan walo! jab tum rasool (saw) se koi raaz ki baat tanhaa'i mein araz karna chaho to apni raazdaaraana baat kehne se pahele kuchh sadaqa-o-khayraat kar liya karo. yeh (amal) tumhare liye behtar aur pakeeza -tar hai. phir agar (khayraat ke liye) kuchh na paao to be-shaq Allah bahut bakhsh-ne wala, bahut raham farmaane wala hai"

As anajmi correctly pointed out, sadaqa is haraam on ahlul bayt. Supposed heirs of Ahlul Bayt, bayt-e-zaini, clearly are not following in Rasulullah's footsteps in this case.

[progticide]

Idiots like Porus(Prof. POO), Hanif and others,
Read the topic of this thread before posting your nonsensible and irrelevant comments. Go wash your pathetic faces if you're feeling sleepy, morons. I am not sure about you intellectual level, but if you ever went to college, I am sure you would have ended up writing English peotry in Math exam paper. So excuse us of your stupidity in every other thread, losers.

Bringing the subject back to the topic of discussion.

Information also coming in that none of the above gentlemen that Doctor has mentioned are Hafiz. They all refer literature belonging to Late Ahmedali and primarily quote everything as per his teachings.

Another interesting information coming in that before being removed from Jamea, Ahmedali was himself in the service of 52nd Dai for a few years and under 51st Dai's service for almost 3-4 decades. Until then, he had no problems with the chain of Dais. Only after his removal, when he did not get any favourable response in Udaipur and failed to be recognised as their leader he went to Malegaon where he racked up the issue of this Nass after 46th Dai which was never a issue in the first place. The fact that he himself served 51st and 52nd Dai proves that his actions were totally political in nature based on his desire for elevation in the ranks of dawat functionaries.
As I am being informed by various sources Ahmedali did not have any great following in Udaipur but since the progressives (who had a different agenda altogether for their grievances with kothar) needed clerics for their religious matters and affairs hence they had to accept these individuals as their clerics out of necessity. This is where Ahmedali saw his utility and started propogating his beliefs and false agenda to takeover the movement and fed his teachings into the next generation who in the absence of any genuine and honest guidance and religious teachings fell prey to his doctrines of 46th Dai Nass and other irrelevant and false beliefs.

[stranger]

Go wash your pathetic faces if you're feeling sleepy, morons. I am not sure about you intellectual level, but if you ever went to college, I am sure you would have ended up writing English peotry in Math exam paper.

Hahah

[Adam]

Well said Progticide.

It's an interesting fact you posted that Ahmed Ali wasn't accepted by the Udaipuri Proggies.
Seems like the case of the "blind leading the blind"?

But then again, what about these 5 great guys mentioned?
Are there others?

[Humsafar]

Well said Progticide.

It's an interesting fact you posted that Ahmed Ali wasn't accepted by the Udaipuri Proggies.
Seems like the case of the "blind leading the blind"?

But then again, what about these 5 great guys mentioned?
Are there others?

Hey pesticide, so this your scoop? Wow, you've shaken the ground beneath the feet of all reformists. Su zalzalo kido, as AZ would say. Suddenly, in one fell swoop you've destroyed the locus standi of reformist agenda and philosophy. God, Ahmed Ali was not accepted by all Udaipuris, how are we going to live this revelation now. We reformists better find another cause to fight for. Peronally, I'm distraught, my life has lost all meaning. This, and that perennial question: How I'm going to identify the Imam after death. Woa, that's a double whammy. God, pesticide in Dai's divine name why are you doing this to me? Why? What have I done to you?
Adam bro, what about the corrupt and cunning leading the fools? We may be blind but at least we're not idiots.

[bohri]

Well said Progticide.

It's an interesting fact you posted that Ahmed Ali wasn't accepted by the Udaipuri Proggies.
Seems like the case of the "blind leading the blind"?

But then again, what about these 5 great guys mentioned?
Are there others?

Hey pesticide, so this your scoop? Wow, you've shaken the ground beneath the feet of all reformists. Su zalzalo kido, as AZ would say. Suddenly, in one fell swoop you've destroyed the locus standi of reformist agenda and philosophy. God, Ahmed Ali was not accepted by all Udaipuris, how are we going to live this revelation now. We reformists better find another cause to fight for. Peronally, I'm distraught, my life has lost all meaning. This, and that perennial question: How I'm going to identify the Imam after death. Woa, that's a double whammy. God, pesticide in Dai's divine name why are you doing this to me? Why? What have I done to you?
Adam bro, what about the corrupt and cunning leading the fools? We may be blind but at least we're not idiots.

Humsafar - Agreed - Shall we declare today a day of grief? Purjosh matam is in order. We need a leader, a leader...now which noorani faced photo shall we I kiss each morning? . Who will direct me what to eat, when to eat, what to wear who to meet with? What about all my hard earned cash - will I have to decide for myself where I give it away?

Does that mean I will have to use my own akl now?

I am bereft, please help me!

Progticide - surely there is some limit to your cruelty. How can you wake me from my zombie state?

[Humsafar]

Agreed bohri bro, let's declare this day as the day of eternal mourning. The Incas were right, they prophesied that the world would end in 2012, and our lovely little world steeped in reformist sin has truly ended. I suspect the Inacs were a bunch of hidden Imams, and I'm sure our friend pesticide is in touch with them. Nay, he is our hidden imam uz zaman. But he is a slave of Dai. It's all becoming topsy turvy, Imam slave of a Dai? Looks like the Imam is practicing taqiya and taawil at the same time, and the Dai is laughing all the way to the bank. Boo hoo hooo... pls somebody console me.

[bohri]

Idiots like Porus(Prof. POO), Hanif and others,
Read the topic of this thread before posting your nonsensible and irrelevant comments. Go wash your pathetic faces if you're feeling sleepy, morons. I am not sure about you intellectual level, but if you ever went to college, I am sure you would have ended up writing English peotry in Math exam paper. So excuse us of your stupidity in every other thread, losers.

.[/b][/color]

ProgSaheb - did you mean English pottery? English PotPouri? English Poo? I am confused now that i don't have a leader - is there a tawil-batin message hidden in your note above? Please enlighten!

[Adam]

Topic trying to be deviated by lost souls again.
We're not talking about a hidden Imam in this thread.

We (Dawoodi Bohra)s would like to know who the Proggies turn to for guidance. They had 46 Dais, and suddenly went astray. Who's now? Who helps you?

[Humsafar]

Topic trying to be deviated by lost souls again.
We're not talking about a hidden Imam in this thread.

We (Dawoodi Bohra)s would like to know who the Proggies turn to for guidance. They had 46 Dais, and suddenly went astray. Who's now? Who helps you?

Don't worry your pretty little head about us Dawoodi Bohras. You Abde Burhani Bohras have a leader, so you be happy and sing hallelujah. Why are you addicted to Dawoodi Bohras and this Forum?

[anajmi]

They had 46 Dais, and suddenly went astray.

They didn't suddenly go astray. They saw the corruption of the current Dai, his lavish lifestyle, his loot of the community and decided to do something about it unlike you cowards.

[Adam]

Don't worry your pretty little head about us Dawoodi Bohras. You Abde Burhani Bohras have a leader, so you be happy and sing hallelujah. Why are you addicted to Dawoodi Bohras and this Forum?

We are VERY happy. We are Dawoodi Bohras
I'm part of this Forum because their is a group of confused, idiots who are insutling the Dawoodi Bohra name, their texts, beliefs, practices, Imams and Dais.

We (Dawoodi Bohra)s would like to know who the Proggies turn to for guidance. They had 46 Dais, and suddenly went astray. Who's now? Who helps you?

[anajmi]

They had 46 Dais, and suddenly went astray.

They didn't suddenly go astray. They saw the corruption of the current Dai, his lavish lifestyle, his loot of the community and decided to do something about it unlike you cowards.

[bohri]

Don't worry your pretty little head about us Dawoodi Bohras. You Abde Burhani Bohras have a leader, so you be happy and sing hallelujah. Why are you addicted to Dawoodi Bohras and this Forum?

We are VERY happy. We are Dawoodi Bohras

We (Dawoodi Bohra)s would like to know who the Proggies turn to for guidance. They had 46 Dais, and suddenly went astray. Who's now? Who helps you?

Really very happy?? All the people I know are always whining about the cash they have to dole out to support the kothari government's extravagant lifestyle. You must be amongst the receivers of this generous charity!

[progticide]

I am feeling sorry now to have started this thread. I didn't know that a few details from me and a few questions on the same would rattle the proggy club so much out of shape that their Senapati "Doctor Mubarak" would be forced to go into hiding.

Pehle hi kuch khaas buddhijeevi (intellectuals) nahin the progressives ke paas, aur ab jo bache kuche kaam-chalaaoo leaders the woh bhi bhaag khade hue is topic ke shuru hone ke baad. Pehle Insaf aur ab Doctor ne bhi saath chhod diya.
Progticide, Ye tumne kya kar daala. Maardala, Maardala, Ab progressives ki dukaan par lag jayega taala.

Doctor saheb, waapas aa jaao, tumse aur kuch nahi puchhenge, promise.

[Adam]

Haha.
I don't think the Proggies are ever going to answer this thread.

Anajmi, well, he's everywhere!
Maybe he's just been hired by the Progs to fill up this forum.
P.S - I don't think the Proggies know that he considers them Mushriks as well

Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

[anajmi]

1. Prof. Mehdi Hasan
2. Mulla Taher bhai Lokhandwala
3. Janab Sajjad Hussain KG
4. Janab Peer Ali
5. Janab Aaqib Palana Wala

[Humsafar]

Pehle hi kuch khaas buddhijeevi (intellectuals) nahin the progressives ke paas, aur ab jo bache kuche kaam-chalaaoo leaders the woh bhi bhaag khade hue is topic ke shuru hone ke baad. Pehle Insaf aur ab Doctor ne bhi saath chhod diya.
Progticide, Ye tumne kya kar daala. Maardala, Maardala, Ab progressives ki dukaan par lag jayega taala.
.

Pesticide is so right, pls close this forum, shut this reformist shop - it can't compete with the big predatory Dawat Inc and its formidable buddhijeevis who can teach the world how to worship the Dai. Reformists have no option but to worship the dai. Their clerics or whoever the hell they are are not qualified enough because they can't teach someone to worship the Dai. They are useless. Oh pesticide, please save us.

[abde53]

humsafar and progticide bhai
who cares who is the right leader. we ortho know who is right leader he is our shafiq bawa TUS and syedi wa moulai Muffadal BS TUS
we should talk more about the problems and the good things done for our mumineen bhai and bheno.
unless adam and progticide bhai have raza from vazarat they should not get in this argument about who is most qualified progresive clerics, i talk to many progresives and a majority of them have no problem with leadership of our shafiq bawa TUS it is the corruption and dictator behaviour of some of the aamils and shezaadas. many including orhtos some times see who Shezaada Malek Ul Ashter and Shezzada Quaid Joher BS come across as arrogant and their Diwans really treat people badly.
Unless adam-progticide and truebohra bhai have specific raza to question we should agree that our shafiq bawa TUS is the most qualified cleric for both ortho and progees

[ghulam muhammed]

Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

OK So progressives are a miniscule group within a miniscule community known as dawoodi bohras hence they may or may not have qualified clerics but what about the mainstream bohras who claim to be the ONLY rightous sect destined for jannat ?
How many qualified clerics do they have who have participated in Islamic conferences/debates worldwide ?
How many clerics do they have whose word is taken seriously in the Islamic world or they have been influential in important decision making process in Islamic circles ?

Now dont say it is your dai because he has NEVER participated in any islamic debates and the only thing that he takes pride in, is the various decorative titles purchased from despotic rulers.

[Adam]

Haha.
I don't think the Proggies are ever going to answer this thread.

Anajmi, well, he's everywhere!
Maybe he's just been hired by the Progs to fill up this forum.
P.S - I don't think the Proggies know that he considers them Mushriks as well

Who is the most qualified progressive cleric?

Anajmi

1. Prof. Mehdi Hasan
2. Mulla Taher bhai Lokhandwala
3. Janab Sajjad Hussain KG
4. Janab Peer Ali
5. Janab Aaqib Palana Wala

These 5 are Mushriks according to anajmi?

[anajmi]

Don't know, haven't met them. I have met you and the other abde idiots on this board and can safely say that you are mushriks.

[profastian]

Don't know, haven't met them. I have met you and the other abde idiots on this board and can safely say that you are mushriks.

If kissing the feet of my Maula , makes me a mushrik, then a proud mushrik I am,
Who cares about what a wahabi thinks about me. Wahabis are the most disgusting creatures alive. They are worse then jews and chritians. Worse then pagan hindus. Worse than snakes and pigs. Worse than pig dung. Worse than thorny cacti in the desert. Even worse than bakr, umar and usman
@MF and Demented Wahabi
Now you know how low an opinion I have of you 2.

[anajmi]

Yes. Kissing the feet of your maula makes you a mushrik and the fact that you are proud of that probably makes you a kafir and if you are proud of that, then, well, who gives a shit about a kafir eh?

[profastian]

Yes. Kissing the feet of your maula makes you a mushrik and the fact that you are proud of that probably makes you a kafir and if you are proud of that, then, well, who gives a shit about a kafir eh?

Well you do. You are willing to spend a huge amount of your precious time on us(Kafirs to you)

[ghulam muhammed]

Well you do. You are willing to spend a huge amount of your precious time on us(Kafirs to you)

And Vice versa !!

[SBM]

Humble Request to Administration
From now on any discussion regarding DB whether it is ortho or Progressive turns into Shia/Sunni or name calling please move that thread to Islam or other site
This Bohras and Reform should be left for exposing corruption, poverty and abuse by the establishment
I like to live in the real world where our community is suffering and by abusing Syedna we are turning away people who find this forum to express their aggravations as they have no other place or shoulder to cry on . We are providing the solace to those who have no other place to turn

[Adam]

Anajmi
1. Prof. Mehdi Hasan
2. Mulla Taher bhai Lokhandwala
3. Janab Sajjad Hussain KG
4. Janab Peer Ali
5. Janab Aaqib Palana Wala
These 5 are Mushriks according to anajmi?

Don't know, haven't met them.

Well, then go out and meet them.
Plus, you also know that if they are Proggies, and believe in the Panjatan and Fatimid Imamat and Duat until the 46th and did Sajda to these Imams and believed they were infallible (all basic DB beliefs), Satr, Matam, etc etc.

Thus, these 5 are Mushriks according to Anajmi?