Shirk

[ozmujaheed]

Shirk (Arabic: شرك‎) is the Islamic concept of the sin of polytheism specifically, but in a more general way refers to worshiping other than Allah, associating partners with him, giving his characteristics to others beside him, or not believing in his characteristics. Within Islam, Major Shirk is an unforgivable sin. According to Islamic texts, anyone who commits shirk cannot be forgiven, Allah forgives any sin except for major shirk.

In a theological context one commits shirk by associating some lesser being with Allah. This sin is committed if one imagines that there is some other spirit or soul than Allah whom it is suitable to worship. Many Islamic theologians extend the sense of worship to include praying to some other being to intercede with Allah on one's behalf, rather than taking one's case to God Himself.

Are Bohras aware of this major SIN especially pur josh mattam and dbe Sayedna practises...are Orthos at risk of Shirk when they make Ya Hussain and ritualistic chant ?

Whats is Ismaili Bohra perspective to this issue ?

[questions]

Can anyone shed light on the Safai chithi ? It seems that it is not an Islamic concept at all. I have only heard about it in Bohras, not in any shia or sunni circle. Why does it scare us all so much ? What happens if we don't have one at the time of death? Does God really need to read that to know we are kosher ? I think it amounts to Shirk - if we think the local amil can tell more than ALLAH....

[Muslim First]

Shirk

Jis ne Mola Ali(a.s) ko pukara nahi (Urdu)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzYEqnGLjUs

[JC]

Please do not mix Bohra religion with Islam ......... since bohraism is not Islam, why bother comparing..??!!!

In bohraism Dai is Master and others are Slaves ....... slaves even after death...!!!!

[Muslim First]

Nice performance but full of Shirk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f_sowP3-5A

[Mubarak]

Please do not mix Bohra religion with Islam ......... since bohraism is not Islam, why bother comparing..??!!!

In bohraism Dai is Master and others are Slaves ....... slaves even after death...!!!!

JC: Please do not mix Bohra religion with Islam ......... since bohraism is not Islam, why bother comparing..??!!!

Mubarak:
Sunni sect does not consider mother and father of Mola Ali (a.s.) as Muslim!

To Sunni sect Molana Abu Talib (a.s.) father of Mola Ali is NOT Muslim but Abu Sufiyan is Muslim!

Abu Sufiyan: murdered Hazrat Hamza (a.s.), uncle of Prophet Mohammed (s.a.), murdered two teeth of Propeht Mohammed (a.s.), lead the several attacks on Prophet Mohammed (s.a.)

To Sunni sect Molatina Fatima bint Asad (a.s.) mother of Mola Ali (a.s.) is not Muslim but Hinda wife of Abu Sufiyan is Muslim!

Hinda wife of Abu Sufiyan: she cut hands and legs of Molana Hamza (a.s.), made garland of it and wore over her neck further she chewed body parts of Molana Hamza (a.s.) dead body!

For you not only Bohras but also per Sunni faith mother and father of Mola Ali (a.s.) does not belongs to Islam, and Abu sufiyan and Hinda are purely and truely belongs to Islam !!!

[Mubarak]

Please do not mix Bohra religion with Islam ......... since bohraism is not Islam, why bother comparing..??!!!

In bohraism Dai is Master and others are Slaves ....... slaves even after death...!!!!

JC: Please do not mix Bohra religion with Islam ......... since bohraism is not Islam, why bother comparing..??!!!

Mubarak:
Sunni sect does not consider mother and father of Mola Ali (a.s.) as Muslim!

To Sunni sect Molana Abu Talib (a.s.) father of Mola Ali is NOT Muslim but Abu Sufiyan is Muslim!

Abu Sufiyan: murdered Hazrat Hamza (a.s.), uncle of Prophet Mohammed (s.a.), murdered two teeth of Propeht Mohammed (a.s.), lead the several attacks on Prophet Mohammed (s.a.)

To Sunni sect Molatina Fatima bint Asad (a.s.) mother of Mola Ali (a.s.) is not Muslim but Hinda wife of Abu Sufiyan is Muslim!

Hinda wife of Abu Sufiyan: she cut hands and legs of Molana Hamza (a.s.), made garland of it and wore over her neck further she chewed body parts of Molana Hamza (a.s.) dead body!

For you not only Bohras but also per Sunni faith mother and father of Mola Ali (a.s.) does not belongs to Islam, and Abu sufiyan and Hinda are purely and truely belongs to Islam !!!

[Muslim First]

Sunni sect does not consider mother and father of Mola Ali (a.s.) as Muslim!

Mubark

Anybody who takes Shahad is Muslim.

If you can conclusively prove that HZ Ali's father took Shahada then he is Muslim otherwise he died with whatever religion he was practicing.

[JC]

Bros Muslim First and Mubarak

You see there lies the fundamental difference .............. the other day I heard in Waez that:

Abu Talib was the decendant of Ismail son of Abrahim, and that is Linege of Imamat which started from Abrahim. Prophethood stayed with Issac (or Ishaq). So Prophethood reached Mohammad and Imamat reached Ali ...... and when Ali married Fatema, both merged, however Ali being male, the institute of Imamat continues till today and Prophethood as such ended on Mohammad.

So if Bohras 'believe' Imamat' has continued from Abrahim and Ismail, naturally Abu Talib was Muslim, more so Imam..!! And this only Bohras know......!!!!!!!!

I fail to understand logic here ........... bohras todate (rather Kothar) claims that there MUST be leader, a Rahbar, AT ALL TIMES in this world ....... and this PERSON has to be ONE and ONLY ........ like there cannot be two Imams at one time, there could not two Dais, two Prophets, the Leader has to be ONE ........ OK given. So you mean to say for those hundreds of years when Sons of Ismail and Ishaq were PRESENT, there were TWO Leaders on this earth simultaneouly - one being Prophet and other being Imam ........ one in Jerusalem and one in Makkah ......... so were they Preaching TWO Shairats?? I guess No, then WHY were there TWO Leaders during those times??? Who was Higher?? Who was final authority. Your logic today says - there has to be ONE only ........ even other day it was told in Waez ..... Asman Ma Khuda, Zameen Ma Dai...

[ozmujaheed]

This thread is for Shirk and not debating historical events around Ali or others !

[JC]

Mangee Lay Jo ....... Mangee Lay Jo ........... Hussain Tuo Datar Chay ......... Jay Mangso Malee Jasay ........

So Bohras do 'begging' from how may DEAD ........?????!!!!!!!!!!

There is a famous saying - If you will NOT ask from Allah, the One, you will beg from hundreds .........

[ghulam muhammed]

To Sunni sect Molatina Fatima bint Asad (a.s.) mother of Mola Ali (a.s.) is not Muslim but Hinda wife of Abu Sufiyan is Muslim!

To Shia sect Hazrat Abu Bakr, Usman and Umer (r.a.) who are given glad tidings (Ashara Mubashara) by Rasul Allah (s.a.w.) are kaafirs and not Muslims but the shias of kufa who betrayed Imam Hussain (a.s.) are Muslims.

Hinda wife of Abu Sufiyan: she cut hands and legs of Molana Hamza (a.s.), made garland of it and wore over her neck further she chewed body parts of Molana Hamza (a.s.) dead body!

Shias of kufa: They were responsible for the shahadat of Muslim bin Aqeel (a.s.) who was thrown from a steep height and whose holy body was hanged on the streets of kufa.

Shias of kufa: Although they were almost 18,000 in numbers still they got scared and betrayed Imam Hussain (a.s.) due to which He had to fight the battle of karbala with only 72 loyal followers. Had they not betrayed Imam Hussain (a.s.), probably this shocking and saddest event in the history of Islam would never have occurred.

Still you leave no opportunity to shower laanats on the Holy Companions but refuse to speak even a word against the shia of kufas who are responsible for the shahadat of Imam Hussain (a.s.) and other shohadas.

Note: I have got no soft corner for either Hinda or Abu Sufiyan or Yazid because they are a blot on Islam but I do have doubts about the honesty and loyalty of your ancestor shias. Moreover whether Abu Talib (a.s.) and Molatena Fatima binte Asad (a.s.) were Muslims or not is for no one to judge because Allah (swt) is Aalim-ul-Ghaib and He knows better as to what Imaan one has and there is no iota of doubt that these holy souls were very dear to Allah (swt). The same can not be said about your ancestor kufan shias.

[porus]

Ghulam Muhammed,

If you listen to shahaadat of Imam Husain in a Shia majlis, you might conclude that all Shia feel responsible for the killing oh Husain and the ritual of self-flagellation is the penance for their guilt over it. I am not arguing that this show of penance is justifiable. I am correcting your impression that the Shia do not feel that they are, in some way, to blame for Husain's slaying.

It is the Ismaili/Bohra belief that Imamat has always existed and has been preserved through individuals since the creation of Adam. These individuals included Ali's mother and Abi Taalib. Again, I am not asserting truth or falsity of this belief, but pointing out the belief, which, I think, is not well known among ordinary Bohras.

I do not agree that Ismaili/Bohras regard the first three Khalifas to be kaafirs, at least not as part of the their faith.

[anajmi]

I am correcting your impression that the Shia do not feel that they are, in some way, to blame for Husain's slaying.

This is the shia equivalent of the "Original Sin" made famous by the christians. Just as all christians are born sinners, so are all shias born sinners. The quran has negated any such ridiculous belief. The shias have yet to learn.

[porus]

This is the shia equivalent of the "Original Sin" made famous by the christians. Just as all christians are born sinners, so are all shias born sinners. The quran has negated any such ridiculous belief. The shias have yet to learn.

The most charitable thing one can say about you, anajmi, is that you are too damned ignorant; and arrogant, to boot.

Original Sin is Adam and Eve's disobedience of Allah's command. Allah forgave them before the rest of the humanity came along. Shias have not committed any sin by being born. It is their voluntary assumption of responsibility for a historical event. I am not sinful if one of my forebears has accidentally, or through some external constraint, killed someone, but I may feel responsible and even guilty. And, I may set out to lessen the guilt by some reparation towards the family of the killed person. The so-called 'blood money' as set out in ayat 4:92 deals with this issue.

People of Kufa were terrorized by Ubaydullah bin Ziyad into withholding support for Husain. It was their 'high noon'. You may think of Husain as the 'Gary Cooper' character. Only Husain lost his life. At least, one can understand their situation. It is a classic question that every Shia asks, which is, "What would I have done if I was there?"

[anajmi]

Shias have not committed any sin by being born.

Well, neither have the christians. It is just a belief. A belief that you are somehow responsible for some crime/sin committed centuries ago. This belief is then extended further into hatred for all sunnis because just as shias believe they are responsible for the death of Imam Hussain, they believe other sunnis are responsible for what they think Hazrat Abu Bakr, Hazrat Umar and Hazrat Uthman did. Their hatred continues.

What would the shia have done if they were there? hmmm...If we are talking about the bohras, then they would've done maatam and 2 kharas 2 mithas jaman, and khichdo on Ashura.

[ghulam muhammed]

If you listen to shahaadat of Imam Husain in a Shia majlis, you might conclude that all Shia feel responsible for the killing oh Husain and the ritual of self-flagellation is the penance for their guilt over it.

I beg to differ here because after attending many shia/bohra vayez I dont see any remorse on their part or in no way do they seem to believe that they were in anyway responsible for the tragic event at karbala.

I do not agree that Ismaili/Bohras regard the first three Khalifas to be kaafirs, at least not as part of the their faith.

Although the bohras explicitly do not use the word 'kafir' for the 3 khalifas but with their laanats, abuses and humiliation of the 3 khalifas they want to drive the point that the 3 khalifas were indeed kafirs and/or worse then kafirs. (Nauzubillah).

[ozmujaheed]

Admin: Since the contributers do not want to heed my suggestion that this thread was for discussing Shirk can you rename the thread as "Shia vs Sunni who is who" and then they can pour their hearts out

[Mubarak]

To Sunni sect Molatina Fatima bint Asad (a.s.) mother of Mola Ali (a.s.) is not Muslim but Hinda wife of Abu Sufiyan is Muslim!

To Shia sect Hazrat Abu Bakr, Usman and Umer (r.a.) who are given glad tidings (Ashara Mubashara) by Rasul Allah (s.a.w.) are kaafirs and not Muslims but the shias of kufa who betrayed Imam Hussain (a.s.) are Muslims.

Hinda wife of Abu Sufiyan: she cut hands and legs of Molana Hamza (a.s.), made garland of it and wore over her neck further she chewed body parts of Molana Hamza (a.s.) dead body!

Shias of kufa: They were responsible for the shahadat of Muslim bin Aqeel (a.s.) who was thrown from a steep height and whose holy body was hanged on the streets of kufa.

Shias of kufa: Although they were almost 18,000 in numbers still they got scared and betrayed Imam Hussain (a.s.) due to which He had to fight the battle of karbala with only 72 loyal followers. Had they not betrayed Imam Hussain (a.s.), probably this shocking and saddest event in the history of Islam would never have occurred.

Still you leave no opportunity to shower laanats on the Holy Companions but refuse to speak even a word against the shia of kufas who are responsible for the shahadat of Imam Hussain (a.s.) and other shohadas.

Note: I have got no soft corner for either Hinda or Abu Sufiyan or Yazid because they are a blot on Islam but I do have doubts about the honesty and loyalty of your ancestor shias. Moreover whether Abu Talib (a.s.) and Molatena Fatima binte Asad (a.s.) were Muslims or not is for no one to judge because Allah (swt) is Aalim-ul-Ghaib and He knows better as to what Imaan one has and there is no iota of doubt that these holy souls were very dear to Allah (swt). The same can not be said about your ancestor kufan shias.

Ghulam Mohammad: To Shia sect Hazrat Abu Bakr, Usman and Umer (r.a.) who are given glad tidings (Ashara Mubashara) by Rasul Allah (s.a.w.) are kaafirs and not Muslims but the shias of kufa who betrayed Imam Hussain (a.s.) are Muslims.


Mubarak:
Per Dawoodi Bohra Shia faith, your trio netas are not given any glad tiding.

Your Sunni sect too acknowledges that prior to converting in Islam your trio netas were born kaafir.

Per Dawoodi Bohras faith, whomsoever betrayed Imam Hussain (a.s.) are not Shia whether they belong to Kufa or otherwise.


Ghulam Mohammad:
Shias of kufa: They were responsible for the shahadat of Muslim bin Aqeel (a.s.) who was thrown from a steep height and whose holy body was hanged on the streets of kufa.

Shias of kufa: Although they were almost 18,000 in numbers still they got scared and betrayed Imam Hussain (a.s.) due to which He had to fight the battle of karbala with only 72 loyal followers. Had they not betrayed Imam Hussain (a.s.), probably this shocking and saddest event in the history of Islam would never have occurred.

Still you leave no opportunity to shower laanats on the Holy Companions but refuse to speak even a word against the shia of kufas who are responsible for the shahadat of Imam Hussain (a.s.) and other shohadas.


Mubarak:
The then governor of Kufa: Sunni sect leader Ubaidullah bin Ziyad under the instructions of Sunni neta Yazid bin Maviya, murdered Molana Muslim bin Aqeel (a.s.).

All those who wrote invitation letters to Imam Hussain and latter changed their side under terror from Sunni neta Ubaidullah bin Ziad are NOT Shias in general and Mumeen in particular.


Ghulam Mohammad:
Note: I have got no soft corner for either Hinda or Abu Sufiyan or Yazid because they are a blot on Islam but I do have doubts about the honesty and loyalty of your ancestor shias. Moreover whether Abu Talib (a.s.) and Molatena Fatima binte Asad (a.s.) were Muslims or not is for no one to judge because Allah (swt) is Aalim-ul-Ghaib and He knows better as to what Imaan one has and there is no iota of doubt that these holy souls were very dear to Allah (swt). The same can not be said about your ancestor kufan shias.

Mubarak:
You are individual, but Sunni as a sect have the said belief – Sunni considers Abu Sufiyan and Hinda as pristine Muslims and (mazallah) as kaafir to mother-father of Mola Ali (a.s.)! Thus Sunni as a sect belief is contrary to your personal belief!

To begin with beginning, all those who betrayed Imam Hussain (a.s.) are ab-initio not Shia’s like the then people in Kufa.

Sunnis residing in India and Pakistan have their ancestor as Kafirs and likewise for majority Arabs/African Sunnis.

Dawoodi Bohras ancestors are not Kufan Shias. In Yemen, Yemeni Arabs and in India upper caste Brahmans got convinced and willfully accepted the Bohra faith. (i.e. not by fear of sword – which Auranzeb used to convert Hindus in Sunni - violating the Quran order: “lakum denokum valayaddin” – no forcefulness in Islam)

[S. Insaf]

What is Shirk?
Qur'an: Islamic commentators on the Qur'an have emphasized that pre-Islamic Arabic idolatry made a number of godlings (most memorably the three goddesses al-Manāt, al-Lāt and ˤUzzā) equal associates of Allah (as the Qur'an discusses in the 53rd surat) and the word mushrikūn is often translated into English as "polytheists".
Other forms of shirk include the worship of wealth and other material objects. This is pointed in the Qur'an in one of the story of the Children of Israel, when they took a calf made of gold for worship (Quran 7:148-150), and for which Moses ordered their execution. Another form of shirk is to consider the Lord as people and monks, as mentioned in Qur'an 9:31. Yet another form is to treat a prophet, such as Jesus, as God.

(Sayedna Saheb claims that he is Elahul-Ard (God on earth) which is Shirk according to Quran)

Theology: In a theological context one commits shirk by associating some lesser being with Allah. This sin is committed if one imagines that there is some other spirit than Allah whom it is suitable to worship. Many Islamic theologians extend the sense of worship to include praying to some other being to intercede with Allah on one's behalf, rather than taking one's case to God Himself. The limits of the concept of worship are quite elastic and theologians often describe excessive veneration of some artifact here on earth as shirk.

(According to this Sajda before Sayedna and describing every thing as “Karam and Ahsanat of Aqa Maula Sayedna is Shirk.)

Major Shirk - Derived from the Qur'an and the prophetic tradition (Sunnah), there are three main categories of Shirk in Islam.
1) Shirk in Rubūbīyah (Lordship) - This category of Shirk refers to either the belief that others share God's Lordship over creation as His equal or near equal, or to the belief that there exists no Lord over creation at all.
• Shirk by association - This is the Shirk concerned with associating 'others' with Allah.

( One of the conditions of Misaq says:
If the breaker of Oath (Misaq) makes 30 tawafs of Kaba bear-footed even than God will not pardon him until he/she seeks apology of Dai and Dai pardons him. Which means even God is not above the Dai. Because the oath says that if Dai's orders are broken even God will not pardon the person who has disobeyed the Dai's orders. If he however again takes the oath of allegiance to the Dai, God will be pleased to pardon him. A benevolent God may pardon the sinner even though he has sinned against His own commands but He cannot pardon the man or woman who disobeys the Dai's orders!
What can be bigger Shirk than this?)
• Shirk by negation - This is Shirk in Rubūbīyah (Lordship)

(Dai is called Aqa and Maula and the word Sayedna also means Our Lord)

2) Shirk in al-Asma was-Sifat (the names and attributes of Allah): Shirk in this category includes both the common pagan practice of giving God the attributes of His creation as well as the act of giving created beings God's names and attributes.
• Shirk by deification - This form of Shirk in al-Asma was-Sifat relates to cases where created beings or things are given or claim God's names or His attributes. For example, it was the practice of the ancient Arabs to worship idols whose names were derived from the names of God. Their main three idols were: al-Lat taken from God's name al-Elah, al-'Uzza taken from al-'Aziz and al-Manat taken from al-Mannan . During the era of Muhammad there was also a man in a region of Arabia called Yamamah, who claimed to be a prophet and took the name Rahman which, in Islam, belongs only to God.
(The Bohra Dai uses the titles like “Qazi-ul-Hajat”, “Kabatul Musallin”)
Shirk In al-'Ibadah (Worship): In this category of Shirk, acts of worship are directed to other than Allah and the reward for worship is sought from the creation instead of the Creator. As in the case of the previous categories, Shirk in al-'Ebadah has two main aspects.
• Ash-Shirk al-Akbar (Major Shirk) - This form of Shirk occurs when any act of worship is directed to other than Allah. It represents the most obvious form of idolatry which the prophets were specifically sent by God to call the masses of mankind away from. Examples of this shirk, asking forgiveness, admittance to paradise and other things that only Allah can provide, from other than Allah.
Shirk Al koboor
Ash-Shirk al-Asghar (Minor Shirk) - Minor Shirk
Mahmud ibn Lubayd reported, "God's messenger said: "The thing I fear for you the most is ash-Shirk al-Asghar (minor shirk)."
The companions asked "Oh! messenger of God, what is minor Shirk?"
He replied "Ar-Riya (showing off), for verily God will say on the Day of Resurrection when people are receiving their rewards, 'Go to those for whom you were showing off in the material world and see if you can find any reward from them."
•Secret Shirk - Mahmud ibn Lubayd also said, "The Prophet came out and announced, 'O people, beware of secret Shirk!' The people asked, 'O messenger of God, what is secret Shirk?' He replied, 'When a man gets up to pray and strives to beautify his prayer because people are looking at him; that is secret Shirk."
Swearing by other than Allah: This is considered minor Shirk, unless the one who swore believes that whoever they swore by is equal to or worthy of Allah's worth.
Please note that the Shirk according to Quran is the greatest Sin. May Allah save Sayedna Saheb

[themonster31]

yes s.Insaf in this I m with you

[porus]

Theology: In a theological context one commits shirk by associating some lesser being with Allah. This sin is committed if one imagines that there is some other spirit than Allah whom it is suitable to worship. Many Islamic theologians extend the sense of worship to include praying to some other being to intercede with Allah on one's behalf, rather than taking one's case to God Himself. The limits of the concept of worship are quite elastic and theologians often describe excessive veneration of some artifact here on earth as shirk.

I have been bothered by the concept of intercession (shafaa'at). I have come to this conclusion after reading the Quran as carefully as I could. Intercession applies only on the Day of Judgment. This means that you are required to prepare yourself in a way that you become qualified for intercession by the prophet and others whose intercession Allah will accept on that day.

To ask for intercession while you are alive is not permissible. You only pray to Allah for help.

This is a no-no.

'Aqa mawla na waseela si mari saglee ummeedo.n ne puri karjo'

We do not know whose intercession except that of Prophet will be acceptable, and that only on the Day of Judgment. Allah knows, not you, what you need. Your wants are immaterial to him.

[anajmi]

To ask for intercession while you are alive is not permissible. You only pray to Allah for help.

I am not sure if this would classify as asking for intercession, but I ask my mother to pray for me and my children all the time. Knowledgeable people have said that the Dua of a mother has strength. Similarly, I ask people who I know and are going to Hajj to pray for me. "Dua maa Yaad Rakhjo", or even during Ramadan when I meet friends we say that to each other.

[porus]

Dua for yourself or others, I think, is ok. Most duas are concerned with asking Allah for safety, prosperity etc. for yourself and others. However, you cannot say "mein meri ammi-ka (or dai-ka) waseela le ke ke dua karta huu.n".

This also throws into question the two raka'aat of tawassul of the Dai. I would say that is just not on.

Allah knows what you need. You may not know it. You only need to ask him to show you what you need.

[Aarif]

Maybe I am wrong, but I think Porus is referring to intercession in terms of taking wasila of someone. E.g. people go to Roza of Syedna Taher Saifuddin and pray to him to fulfill their wishes assuming he will be able to do it for them on behalf of Allah. This is different from asking someone to remember you in their prayers. E.g. I would ask my mom to pray for me but I will not pray to my mom asking her to get my wishes fulfilled. That I think I can only do to Allah...

[Aarif]

Porus,

I think I interpreted your post correctly. I posted without reading yours first and hence, has come out like a repetition...

[profastian]

Although the bohras explicitly do not use the word 'kafir' for the 3 khalifas but with their laanats, abuses and humiliation of the 3 khalifas they want to drive the point that the 3 khalifas were indeed kafirs and/or worse then kafirs. (Nauzubillah).

Infact we do use the word 'kafir' for the 3. And they deserve all the lanats they get. They are akin to dogs and pigs. There you have it. I said it. And for you guyz who say we shouldnt speak lanats on them. Let me ask you a question, do u speak lanat on shimar(the murdurer of Hussain). If you do, then these 3 are the real murdurers of hussain bcoz of wat they did at the time of the death of the prophet. Be hazar lanats on them.

[guy_sam2005]

Maybe I am wrong, but I think Porus is referring to intercession in terms of taking wasila of someone. E.g. people go to Roza of Syedna Taher Saifuddin and pray to him to fulfill their wishes assuming he will be able to do it for them on behalf of Allah. This is different from asking someone to remember you in their prayers. E.g. I would ask my mom to pray for me but I will not pray to my mom asking her to get my wishes fulfilled. That I think I can only do to Allah...

we pray to allah only with wasila of syedna taher saifuddin n so.....just like if you want something from your boss you ask your manager for favours......

[SBM]

Guy sam
just like if you want something from your boss you ask your manager for favours....

.

Guy
Shame on you YOU BROUGHT ALLAH RABIL AA LAMIN TO THE LEVEL OF A HUMAN BEING WHILE QURAN CLEARLY ORDERS YOU TO ASK ALLAH DIRECTLY WITHOUT INTERMEDIARY But I do agree Syedna is a Manager who is not doing a good job of managing a small community and should be fired or given early retirement
Your knowledge is very shallow

[Smart]

Oh! And I used to think that Allah is great enough to hear our prayers directly. Does he really need a sole selling agent / intermediary?