In the world of Academics, I truly believe that it
is necessary to know the "view/belief/stand-point of the author" when
reading his/her work.
On this forum, there are many who claim to be Dawoodi Bohras, but in
turn insult its core beliefs. Some don't even hold any sentiment for
Dawoodi Bohra beliefs, but are here to preach their own. Some are
inclined towards Wahabism and Salafism.
All are certainly free to believe whatever they may want, and preach
if they choose to do so. But, for the sake of clear understanding,
your views and beliefs must be clear. On that basis answers can be given.
There are many on this forum, some are more active than others, who's
views in respect to Fatimi, Ismaili & Dawoodi Bohras are extremely
confusing (to me at least). If I may name a few (without any
disrespect to their views): FearAllah, S. Insaaf, porus, anajmi etc.
These people (and others) have been questioned about their views, and
have answered it, but sometimes not completely clear to all.
I had made an effort earlier by requesting each author to write in
a specific colour according to his beliefs, to assist the reader in
understanding the writers beliefs. That effort proved in vain, mostly
by those who didn't want to disclose their "true colours" in fear of
getting caught! Or maybe it wasn't practical.
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... f=1&t=6109
It is said that the "Devil" must always distorts his image in order to
deceive. If he ever appeared in his hideous and deformed state (showed
his true colours & beliefs), no one would ever fall prey to him, as
they would know that he is in fact the Devil we have been warned
against.
If you consider yourself an academic, or even a mature human being
with a sane mind, and would like to share your story, you would agree
that your "true" introduction is important, and you would oblige.
If not, you are just trying to deceive.
So let's not be "devilish" and not hide our true beliefs. State it out
clear, for the benefit of all.
I have created a Google form, where each person can write his Screen
name, and by answering a few questions, explain his religious views
and beliefs clearly.
The questions are based with a Dawoodi Bohra framework in mind, only
because this site has labeled itself to be a Progressive DAWOODI BOHRA
site, and claims to have something to do with it.
If you feel some alterations need to be made, or questions need to be
added, I am open to feedbacks, please PM me.
The form can be accessed from this link:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/vie ... c6MA#gid=0
A database of views of ALL those who have entered their information
can be viewed from this link:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... utput=html
For the sake of knowledge, honesty and maturity would be appreciated.
For those with childish behaviors, please refrain from it.
You won't be disclosing any personal information, or true name, so
their really isn't any need to be afraid.
Awaiting responses!
(P.S- I truly appologize for the length of my posts. It is due to the
immaturity of many readers, who just devour ambiguity and distort
facts or make silly comments - that I have to go out of my way to make
my statement extremely clear.)
State your belief
Re: State your belief
Is there a prize for completing all the answers?
Re: State your belief
anajmi wrote:Is there a prize for completing all the answers?
You bet!
People will know the real you, and you ll be famous!
You'd get an answer suited to your needs! Custom made.
You haven't filled it out yet.
Re: State your belief
I think the people know the real me and the real you and the real Syedna. And all this on an anonymous board!!
-
ozmujaheed
- Posts: 889
- Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:14 am
Re: State your belief
Careful guys there may be ip address tracing embedded and this could be a trap by kothar to reveal the identity of forum participants
Many questions are dumb and childish, eg are you bohra or progressive as if bohra is exclusivity of the abdes!
Admin for the sake of protection delete the google links so naive people don't make mstakes and get trapped
Many questions are dumb and childish, eg are you bohra or progressive as if bohra is exclusivity of the abdes!
Admin for the sake of protection delete the google links so naive people don't make mstakes and get trapped
Re: State your belief
What is this Adam? A resurrection of Salem Witch Hunt? An Ode to McCarthyism? A regression to the Spanish Inquisition? Or a vindictive descent into Bohra Talibanisation?
It is not that you find my views and those of others on this forum confusing. More likely, you find them unacceptable. I do not find your views confusing at all. And I certainly do not find the views of anajmi, MF or S. Insaf confusing. Your views and theirs are clear as crystal. At times, we all may lack accuracy and crispness in expressing ourselves but we all try.
One thing is very clear. Beliefs are not 'Truth'. They are infinitely malleable. As children we believe in Santa Claus, tooth fairy. In early teens we believe in fables, legends, and 'religious' folklore drummed into us. Most of us discard these beliefs and do not pay attention to them because they do not much matter in everyday life.
That gives the unscrupulous the chance to take advantage of the silence of the majority and activism of fanatical vocal minority to lord it over the entire community. Vocal minority are brainwashed enough to have blinkers over their eyes and ears. And they are not averse to inflicting pain on the community members to pursue their ends.
I suggest you do not worry about beliefs of others but deal with whatever forum members deal with one topic at a time. If you do not like their posts, say so. Better, refute them with better arguments. If you feel like condemning them, do so. But please do not appear to be riding a high horse of having the most accurate belief and faith. That is not what a modern scholar would do.
However, individuals may have an agenda. This becomes clear from their posts. And there is nothing objectionable about it. We are all intelligent enough to deduce them.
It is not that you find my views and those of others on this forum confusing. More likely, you find them unacceptable. I do not find your views confusing at all. And I certainly do not find the views of anajmi, MF or S. Insaf confusing. Your views and theirs are clear as crystal. At times, we all may lack accuracy and crispness in expressing ourselves but we all try.
One thing is very clear. Beliefs are not 'Truth'. They are infinitely malleable. As children we believe in Santa Claus, tooth fairy. In early teens we believe in fables, legends, and 'religious' folklore drummed into us. Most of us discard these beliefs and do not pay attention to them because they do not much matter in everyday life.
That gives the unscrupulous the chance to take advantage of the silence of the majority and activism of fanatical vocal minority to lord it over the entire community. Vocal minority are brainwashed enough to have blinkers over their eyes and ears. And they are not averse to inflicting pain on the community members to pursue their ends.
I suggest you do not worry about beliefs of others but deal with whatever forum members deal with one topic at a time. If you do not like their posts, say so. Better, refute them with better arguments. If you feel like condemning them, do so. But please do not appear to be riding a high horse of having the most accurate belief and faith. That is not what a modern scholar would do.
However, individuals may have an agenda. This becomes clear from their posts. And there is nothing objectionable about it. We are all intelligent enough to deduce them.
-
profastian
- Posts: 1314
- Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am
Re: State your belief
Please send me a program that would "embed ip address tracing" on a googl docs app. I am ready to pay good money to youozmujaheed wrote:Careful guys there may be ip address tracing embedded and this could be a trap by kothar to reveal the identity of forum participants
Many questions are dumb and childish, eg are you bohra or progressive as if bohra is exclusivity of the abdes!
Admin for the sake of protection delete the google links so naive people don't make mstakes and get trapped
-
profastian
- Posts: 1314
- Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am
Re: State your belief
Adam, I personally do not agree with the arguments you presented about people disclosing their true identifies. I agree with porus that beliefs are malleable, not absolute. Although I do think that the poll is an interesting experiment. Not for the sake of finding out individual beliefs and preferences, rather to find the demographics of the entire population on this forum. It will be interesting to know, how many abdes and proggies are here. How many are on the extreme end of the spectrum and how many are hovering in the middle. I think that we should participate in this poll with this spirit. Also if you could remove the username field in the second link, so that people cannot find out whose beliefs are what, more people will be willing to participate.Adam wrote:In the world of Academics, I truly believe that it
is necessary to know the "view/belief/stand-point of the author" when
reading his/her work.
On this forum, there are many who claim to be Dawoodi Bohras, but in
turn insult its core beliefs. Some don't even hold any sentiment for
Dawoodi Bohra beliefs, but are here to preach their own. Some are
inclined towards Wahabism and Salafism.
All are certainly free to believe whatever they may want, and preach
if they choose to do so. But, for the sake of clear understanding,
your views and beliefs must be clear. On that basis answers can be given.
There are many on this forum, some are more active than others, who's
views in respect to Fatimi, Ismaili & Dawoodi Bohras are extremely
confusing (to me at least). If I may name a few (without any
disrespect to their views): FearAllah, S. Insaaf, porus, anajmi etc.
These people (and others) have been questioned about their views, and
have answered it, but sometimes not completely clear to all.
I had made an effort earlier by requesting each author to write in
a specific colour according to his beliefs, to assist the reader in
understanding the writers beliefs. That effort proved in vain, mostly
by those who didn't want to disclose their "true colours" in fear of
getting caught! Or maybe it wasn't practical.
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... f=1&t=6109
It is said that the "Devil" must always distorts his image in order to
deceive. If he ever appeared in his hideous and deformed state (showed
his true colours & beliefs), no one would ever fall prey to him, as
they would know that he is in fact the Devil we have been warned
against.
If you consider yourself an academic, or even a mature human being
with a sane mind, and would like to share your story, you would agree
that your "true" introduction is important, and you would oblige.
If not, you are just trying to deceive.
So let's not be "devilish" and not hide our true beliefs. State it out
clear, for the benefit of all.
I have created a Google form, where each person can write his Screen
name, and by answering a few questions, explain his religious views
and beliefs clearly.
The questions are based with a Dawoodi Bohra framework in mind, only
because this site has labeled itself to be a Progressive DAWOODI BOHRA
site, and claims to have something to do with it.
If you feel some alterations need to be made, or questions need to be
added, I am open to feedbacks, please PM me.
The form can be accessed from this link:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/vie ... c6MA#gid=0
A database of views of ALL those who have entered their information
can be viewed from this link:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... utput=html
For the sake of knowledge, honesty and maturity would be appreciated.
For those with childish behaviors, please refrain from it.
You won't be disclosing any personal information, or true name, so
their really isn't any need to be afraid.
Awaiting responses!
(P.S- I truly appologize for the length of my posts. It is due to the
immaturity of many readers, who just devour ambiguity and distort
facts or make silly comments - that I have to go out of my way to make
my statement extremely clear.)
Re: State your belief
Adam,
you are new to this forum and probably totally stranger to the wide range of beliefs this forum , infact this world has in it.
Typical bohras , which you sound like , are similar to the frogs in the well.....not exposed to the outer world.
I would suggest just relax and keep on reading this forum with an open mind, may Allah give u hidayat..!
you are new to this forum and probably totally stranger to the wide range of beliefs this forum , infact this world has in it.
Typical bohras , which you sound like , are similar to the frogs in the well.....not exposed to the outer world.
I would suggest just relax and keep on reading this forum with an open mind, may Allah give u hidayat..!
Re: State your belief
Nothing will be achieved by knowing the "beliefs" of participants. The challenge for abdes is to justify the Dawat's action in accord with the Dawoodi Bohra beliefs and tradition. On every count they have been tying themselves up in knots to prove that the Dawat is correct and pristine and oftentimes they do so by distorting and perverting the Dawoodi Bohra beliefs and traditions.
-
Ala maqaam
- Posts: 318
- Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:23 am
Re: State your belief
belive in ONE GOD
other then this nothing can be black and white.
other then this nothing can be black and white.
Re: State your belief
Adam,
I believe in humanity..
I believe in humanity..
-
Al Zulfiqar
- Posts: 4618
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am
Re: State your belief
"On this forum, there are many who claim to be Dawoodi Bohras, but in turn insult its core beliefs..."
adam, for all your platitudes and feigning of great wisdom, please define the core beliefs that you are trumpeting here and then lets examine who is violating and perverting them for their own nefarious ends.
do not forget the niyyat behind each core belief and then if you have intellectual honesty, shed light on whether those niyyats are being faithfully followed or cold-bloodedly misused by those who would have an entire community subjugated, brainwashed and misled to line their own pockets and lead a life of haraam ayyashi and indolence.
adam, for all your platitudes and feigning of great wisdom, please define the core beliefs that you are trumpeting here and then lets examine who is violating and perverting them for their own nefarious ends.
do not forget the niyyat behind each core belief and then if you have intellectual honesty, shed light on whether those niyyats are being faithfully followed or cold-bloodedly misused by those who would have an entire community subjugated, brainwashed and misled to line their own pockets and lead a life of haraam ayyashi and indolence.
Re: State your belief
A person's beliefs can be very complicated and very hard to pin down accurately. In fact, there is no need to do so. The only ones who want to do this is the ones who think one set of beliefs are "orthodox" and that all others need to be condemned if not corrected. Regulating beliefs is the hallmark of cultist groups who want all members to adhere to the "party line". We see the bohra beliefs now being brought under tight control of the priests and mullahs. Absolute obedience of both actions and thoughts is preached and attempts are being made at controlling these.
The questions posted by Adam have been discussed ad-nauseum here, and frankly, are totally irrelevant to the progressive movement. The movement is not disputing nass or the basic tenets of the religion, although individuals are free to do so and do from time-to-time. It is about accountability, freedom of conscience and reduction of coercive taxes and practices. It is not about about doctrines, except when it involves the misuse of beliefs for the furtherance of wealth and political power of the clergy. We see ample evidence of this in our daily lives: hundreds if not thousands of extended family members of the da'i live off the community wealth. Extravagant lifestyles of our leaders is for all to see. The smug superiority of the local mullah and amil is evident whenever one talks to them. That needs to stop, or at least stop being funded off community wealth.
For some reason, the discussion with the more fanatical orthodox members always reduces to some sort of cosmic battle of good and evil. They apparently so hell-bent of the afterlife that simple demands and requests are invisible to them. This is all the while when their leaders are accumulating enormous wealth and power in this life, while simultaneously spouting pious platitudes to live a simple life. The hypocrisy of this escapes them.
The questions posted by Adam have been discussed ad-nauseum here, and frankly, are totally irrelevant to the progressive movement. The movement is not disputing nass or the basic tenets of the religion, although individuals are free to do so and do from time-to-time. It is about accountability, freedom of conscience and reduction of coercive taxes and practices. It is not about about doctrines, except when it involves the misuse of beliefs for the furtherance of wealth and political power of the clergy. We see ample evidence of this in our daily lives: hundreds if not thousands of extended family members of the da'i live off the community wealth. Extravagant lifestyles of our leaders is for all to see. The smug superiority of the local mullah and amil is evident whenever one talks to them. That needs to stop, or at least stop being funded off community wealth.
For some reason, the discussion with the more fanatical orthodox members always reduces to some sort of cosmic battle of good and evil. They apparently so hell-bent of the afterlife that simple demands and requests are invisible to them. This is all the while when their leaders are accumulating enormous wealth and power in this life, while simultaneously spouting pious platitudes to live a simple life. The hypocrisy of this escapes them.
Re: State your belief
Call it belief or view, my only request was to KNOW the recipient. Nothing else.
I still stand my the fact that it is very important to know this.
Eg : If you are conversing/arguing with someone who had a Wahabi Belief, there is no point justifying something from the words of a Fatimi Imam AS, because according to him, a Fatimi Imam AS is not a valid source. Because of this, the answer needs to be molded to according to what he understands and believes.
On a few occasions, I argued with some quoting from texts of Fatimid scholars, only to find out that the Progs that were replying had no respect for them! This is what is extremely confusing! (If a prog has a problem with the current Syedna, so be it, but why swear at Fatimid Scholars, if that is a part of his belief.
One name that comes in my mind for this are anajmi s & Fear Allah comments on Syedna Qazo Noman in the Sajda topic.
He doesn't agree with Fatimid texts, and neither in the current Syedna.
So what's he doing on this blog in the first place!
Porus on the other hand, at least he respects Fatimid beliefs and scholars.
But I would still like is VIEW clarified.
This was my only reason to doing this, and I still request most to follow suite.
(Those who have a problem with the type of questions, I clearly stated that I am open to comments).
What is a Dawoodi Bohra in my view ?
1. Believes in a Physical leader in all ages. Prophets, Imams and Dais and doesn't break the chain.
2. To not obey in this leader is a sin and against the belief of this religion.
In my view, I don't consider Progressive DB s Dawoodi Bohra s at all. Simply for the definition of a Dawoodi Bohra.
A Dawoodi Bohra s in the past, believed in the Dai of his time (before Syedna Abdul Qadir Najmuddin RA and after).
So, if you don't believe in the Dai, you seize to remain a Dawoodi Bohra.
You may call yourself what you like, but it's not a Dawoodi Bohra.
Again, please understand this Thread is not a discussion of who is write and wrong.
It's just, WHO IS WHO. What faith, and what VIEW.
That's All.
I still stand my the fact that it is very important to know this.
Eg : If you are conversing/arguing with someone who had a Wahabi Belief, there is no point justifying something from the words of a Fatimi Imam AS, because according to him, a Fatimi Imam AS is not a valid source. Because of this, the answer needs to be molded to according to what he understands and believes.
On a few occasions, I argued with some quoting from texts of Fatimid scholars, only to find out that the Progs that were replying had no respect for them! This is what is extremely confusing! (If a prog has a problem with the current Syedna, so be it, but why swear at Fatimid Scholars, if that is a part of his belief.
One name that comes in my mind for this are anajmi s & Fear Allah comments on Syedna Qazo Noman in the Sajda topic.
He doesn't agree with Fatimid texts, and neither in the current Syedna.
So what's he doing on this blog in the first place!
Porus on the other hand, at least he respects Fatimid beliefs and scholars.
But I would still like is VIEW clarified.
This was my only reason to doing this, and I still request most to follow suite.
(Those who have a problem with the type of questions, I clearly stated that I am open to comments).
What is a Dawoodi Bohra in my view ?
1. Believes in a Physical leader in all ages. Prophets, Imams and Dais and doesn't break the chain.
2. To not obey in this leader is a sin and against the belief of this religion.
In my view, I don't consider Progressive DB s Dawoodi Bohra s at all. Simply for the definition of a Dawoodi Bohra.
A Dawoodi Bohra s in the past, believed in the Dai of his time (before Syedna Abdul Qadir Najmuddin RA and after).
So, if you don't believe in the Dai, you seize to remain a Dawoodi Bohra.
You may call yourself what you like, but it's not a Dawoodi Bohra.
Again, please understand this Thread is not a discussion of who is write and wrong.
It's just, WHO IS WHO. What faith, and what VIEW.
That's All.
Re: State your belief
There has been Progress!
7 replies!
to Name a few
Admin, S. Insaf, Profastian
7 replies!
to Name a few
Admin, S. Insaf, Profastian
Re: State your belief
Please tell me you really don't believe/think that, Admin would fill that form of yours 
?? And I have my doubts about Insaf Saheb too
?? And I have my doubts about Insaf Saheb too Re: State your belief
Everyone is entitled to their views. Everyone is entitled to express their views, or not. That is a rightful personal preference which needs to be unconditionally respected.Adam wrote:Call it belief or view, my only request was to KNOW the recipient. Nothing else.
.
.
What is a Dawoodi Bohra in my view ?
1. Believes in a Physical leader in all ages. Prophets, Imams and Dais and doesn't break the chain.
2. To not obey in this leader is a sin and against the belief of this religion.
A Dawoodi Bohra is a person born to Dawoodi Bohra parents. The only distinction between one DB and another is if he has paid 'dues' demanded of him by his Jamaat to fully take advantage of what he considers are important personal and social occasions within the DB traditions.
If a non-paying, non-participating DB chooses to participate, then all he needs to do is pay up. (He may agree to be humiliated by Kothar as a price for participation such as seeking forgiveness etc. That is just an extra baggage.)
A person's view are a private matter between him and his conscience. Except Allah, no one will ever know what truly another person believes. Even if a person professes a belief,, one cannot be certain of his stand.
Adam, no matter how many sajdas you do to your leader, no matter how many times you kiss his feet and those of his children, no matter how many times you beat your breast, I am not ever going to know if you are a 'true' Dawoodi Bohra, according to your view, that you claim to be.
Your view is just your view. It is interesting to know for some but ultimately it does not matter.
Finally, strictly speaking, Dawoodi Bohra is not a religion. Religion of DB's is Islam and its foundation in this modern age is the Quran.
ديننا هو إسلام. و أساس ديننا في هذ الوقت المعاصر، هو القران الكريم فقط
Re: State your belief
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... utput=html
Thanks to whom ever took the time to fill this form for me
You really made me laugh
Thanks to whom ever took the time to fill this form for me
You really made me laugh Re: State your belief
We've not replied to this.Adam wrote:There has been Progress!
7 replies!
to Name a few
Admin, S. Insaf, Profastian
-
Al Zulfiqar
- Posts: 4618
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am
Re: State your belief
seems that our dear friend adam is suffering from delusions brought on by a steady diet of maatam and invented mojizas..
his zeal in trying to 'fix' the forum members into neat slots is a laughable and at the same time a most pathetic attempt. what he fails to understand is that this is a free forum, free as in without fees, and free as in thought and expression. this somehow does not penetrate his thick skull, conditioned as it is into accepting only a regimented and warped view of his abde world, where either you conform to every diktat of the kothari mafia's deliberately perverted ideology and if you dont, then you are a munafiq, mushriq etc. it does not allow for any shades in between, it does not accept of intelligent questioning or debate, rights which islam came to guarantee and the prophet and ali themselves encouraged.
i also see in this exercise, a nefarious purpose, that of identifying and enumerating who are the real open reformists and who are the insider 'moles', a clever attempt at maligning and harming the reform movement which is a painful thorn in their sides. all this talk of scholarly and academic honesty is so much bull, when it emanates from an abde kothari apologist, being a total antithesis in character.
if after a few months a person cannot figure out who stands where from their posts here, then there is something seriously wrong with his intelligence and common sense. but hold on.. isnt that what defines a typical abde?
his zeal in trying to 'fix' the forum members into neat slots is a laughable and at the same time a most pathetic attempt. what he fails to understand is that this is a free forum, free as in without fees, and free as in thought and expression. this somehow does not penetrate his thick skull, conditioned as it is into accepting only a regimented and warped view of his abde world, where either you conform to every diktat of the kothari mafia's deliberately perverted ideology and if you dont, then you are a munafiq, mushriq etc. it does not allow for any shades in between, it does not accept of intelligent questioning or debate, rights which islam came to guarantee and the prophet and ali themselves encouraged.
i also see in this exercise, a nefarious purpose, that of identifying and enumerating who are the real open reformists and who are the insider 'moles', a clever attempt at maligning and harming the reform movement which is a painful thorn in their sides. all this talk of scholarly and academic honesty is so much bull, when it emanates from an abde kothari apologist, being a total antithesis in character.
if after a few months a person cannot figure out who stands where from their posts here, then there is something seriously wrong with his intelligence and common sense. but hold on.. isnt that what defines a typical abde?
Re: State your belief
Syedna has decided to take the survey (just like Admin). Check out his responses.
Re: State your belief
You can now read Mansoos' responses.
Re: State your belief
porus wrote:
Everyone is entitled to their views. Everyone is entitled to express their views, or not. That is a rightful personal preference which needs to be unconditionally respected.
I haven't forced anyone, it was open to anyone mature enough.
Besides, you're missing the point.
Do you feel one should know the other person before conversing/arguing/disussing with him? Yes or No? If yes, this is exactly what i'm trying to get at. If no, then you'd be talking blindly.
porus wrote:
A Dawoodi Bohra is a person born to Dawoodi Bohra parents. The only distinction between one DB and another is if he has paid 'dues' demanded of him by his Jamaat to fully take advantage of what he considers are important personal and social occasions within the DB traditions.
This shallow definition is very shocking from someone who I respected academic wise.
If that is your belief, let it be so.
But a Dawoodi Bohra is a Muslim, and it's a name of a community that believes in it's causes and has enetered the mithaaq. We need not call ourselves that, it's just something we've been called, and we've accepted it. It's just a name. But this name represents the Muslim-Shia-Ismaili-Fatimi-Tayebi belief until Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin TUS. A person born into this house hold, if you doesn't believe in this, he seizes to remain one, whether he maybe physically a part of it or not.
It's all about belief.
porus wrote:
Your view is just your view. It is interesting to know for some but ultimately it does not matter.
It matters to me, I need to know who i'm talking to, and how to respond.
Thank you Admin for clarifying it. I will delete that and all the posts by immature "devilish" / distorting idiots.
porus wrote:
ديننا هو إسلام. و أساس ديننا في هذ الوقت المعاصر، هو القران الكريم فقط
الكلام حق، و لكن غير مكمل
ديننا الاسلام لا ريب، ولكن ما الاسلام؟ و من الامام في هذا الوقت بعد الرسول؟
اساس دينا القران - و ان القران هو الذكر - و الذكر مربوط باهل الذكر
فمن اهل الذكر في هذا الوقت؟
و ان كتاب الله و عترة رسول الله صلع لن يفترقا حتى يردا الى الرسول على الحوض.
عرفت شيئا و غابت عنك اشياء
-
Al Zulfiqar
- Posts: 4618
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am
Re: State your belief
so now you claim to be the only mature person on this forum?? everyone else here is an immature idiot for not deciding to obey your infantile and puerile attempts at regimentation?Adam wrote:
I haven't forced anyone, it was open to anyone mature enough.
your behaviour and approach is typical of your slave masters and the situation prevailing among the bohra fiefdom today. conform or else.. !!!
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ozmujaheed
- Posts: 889
- Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:14 am
Re: State your belief
Adam try the iPad talking Ben app...babble babble babble babble
Go pretend somewhere else...if abdes and kothar come up with such foot soldiers to belittle the resistance movement then the only thing we are missing is a few more men and women to give you a good fight and possible take over
My foot again I repeat dawoodi bohra is a tribal identity and not a assigned title by sayedna or any so called leader to his loyalists
Regardless of the beliefs whether salafi, Shia, agnostic, Sunni we are all of Bohra tribe with its language culture and association, no one ie abdes or progs can excommunicate any it is not either or. Your beliefs are in your heart and as long as one fOllows basic Islam and does not express the faith offensively we live in 2011 so get used to it and be tolerant
Go pretend somewhere else...if abdes and kothar come up with such foot soldiers to belittle the resistance movement then the only thing we are missing is a few more men and women to give you a good fight and possible take over
My foot again I repeat dawoodi bohra is a tribal identity and not a assigned title by sayedna or any so called leader to his loyalists
Regardless of the beliefs whether salafi, Shia, agnostic, Sunni we are all of Bohra tribe with its language culture and association, no one ie abdes or progs can excommunicate any it is not either or. Your beliefs are in your heart and as long as one fOllows basic Islam and does not express the faith offensively we live in 2011 so get used to it and be tolerant
Re: State your belief
Nobody knows who or where the current Imam is. Sayedna himself is on record as saying "People ask me where Imam is. I say that Imam is in my heart." In other words, he has no idea. Whereabouts of Imam or his current identity has been unknown since the murder of Imam Aamir.Adam wrote:
ديننا الاسلام لا ريب، ولكن ما الاسلام؟ و من الامام في هذا الوقت بعد الرسول؟
I have dealt with this argument many times on this board. What with abdes claiming that only Sayedna knows the real meaning of the Quran and that he can interpret each ayat in 700 ways, it is no wonder that Bohras have reverted to a Brahmin cult where most are happy for a few at the top to 'know' the Quran. Abdes appear to believe that the true interpretation of Quran is known only to Sayedna and that this knowledge mysteriously passes to his successor at the time of his appointment to Daiship. It is the view I have very little sympathy with.Adam wrote:
اساس دينا القران - و ان القران هو الذكر - و الذكر مربوط باهل الذكر
فمن اهل الذكر في هذا الوقت؟
All Bohras have to do is to recite the Quran parrot-fashion without understanding it. What do you believe Quran says about this approach? But, wait a minute, you will say whatever Quran appears to teach non-Sayednas is suspect, right?
You are referring to the hadith of 'thaqalayn'. Shia believe that ahlul bayt refers to the progeny of Muhammad except that they are not agreed which progeny Muhammad was talking about.Adam wrote:
و ان كتاب الله و عترة رسول الله صلع لن يفترقا حتى يردا الى الرسول على الحوض.
I have made my view clear on this board. Ahlul Bayt refers to Muhammad, Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Husain only. That is the only valid interpretation of ayat of tatheer (33:33) and the hadith of 'ahlul kisaa'.
By the way, I noticed there is an entry by 'porus' in your survey spreadsheet. I did not make that entry. Please remove it. Thank you.
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profastian
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Re: State your belief
Who cares about your sympathy.porus wrote: I have dealt with this argument many times on this board. What with abdes claiming that only Sayedna knows the real meaning of the Quran and that he can interpret each ayat in 700 ways, it is no wonder that Bohras have reverted to a Brahmin cult where most are happy for a few at the top to 'know' the Quran. Abdes appear to believe that the true interpretation of Quran is known only to Sayedna and that this knowledge mysteriously passes to his successor at the time of his appointment to Daiship. It is the view I have very little sympathy with.
Re: State your belief
@Porus
Your comments make your belief even more confusing. You've made it very clear you have nothing to do with any Ismaili/Fatimi belief, so why do you care?
When I referred to the word "Imam", it was a question to YOU.
It also meant, WHO is your physical LEADER? Who do you ask if you don't understand something? You must be having someone to look up to, right?
When I mentioned about the Quran. I meant :
Surely, your belief is based on some interpretation of the Quran. Being such a learned person on this righteous path, if you could state who's interpretations/translations/tafseer/ (whatever you'd like to call it) of the Quran or Islam you follow.
You would have some base for the teachings you learnt. Some teacher would have thought you. That teacher would have been following a sect or belief, and depended on someone elses interpretation... What was/is it?
My questions were directed at YOU.
That is why this thread was started. To know YOU & everyone else.
Your comments make your belief even more confusing. You've made it very clear you have nothing to do with any Ismaili/Fatimi belief, so why do you care?
When I referred to the word "Imam", it was a question to YOU.
It also meant, WHO is your physical LEADER? Who do you ask if you don't understand something? You must be having someone to look up to, right?
When I mentioned about the Quran. I meant :
Surely, your belief is based on some interpretation of the Quran. Being such a learned person on this righteous path, if you could state who's interpretations/translations/tafseer/ (whatever you'd like to call it) of the Quran or Islam you follow.
You would have some base for the teachings you learnt. Some teacher would have thought you. That teacher would have been following a sect or belief, and depended on someone elses interpretation... What was/is it?
My questions were directed at YOU.
That is why this thread was started. To know YOU & everyone else.